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The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

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Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#691

Post by mcv »

iLemming wrote: post #185
signal11 wrote: post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

One of the most annoying things after installing Tahoe for me, that for no good reason an ordinary app would randomly lose its focus. In the midst of my typing. This is unbelievably preposterous and I just can't stop hating Apple for this crap. How the fuck this is acceptable? I just have no words. What makes it even worse that I couldn't even complain about it on their support pages - they just keep removing my comm…

My MacBook is corporate, and it's therefore loaded with a ton of corporate auto-update, VPN and apparently questionnaire software. Stuff pops up at the most annoying times. And sometimes, indeed it takes focus away from the thing I'm currently typing. Extremely annoying.

But apparently Apple is not the only offender. Just as I was typing this (on Harmonic on Android), a popup popped up, ate a few of the characters I typed and disappeared again. No idea what it said. Why do people do this? Don't hijack let applications I didn't ask for hijack my input.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#692

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Perepiska wrote: post #421
kristopolous wrote: post #51

I swear, this reign of visual artists as dictators has to stop. I'm sure people noticed this issue internally and brought it up but some thing by some designer was seen as biblically sacred and overruled all reason. I've been at companies were you get severely punished... sometimes fired for subordination for fixing an obviously broken spec by a designer emperor. It's normal to be "I guess 2+2=5 here, whatever" as if…

I worked for a company with a large website. The designers were elite and worked in a darkroom on expensive Apple equipment. At some point, it turned out that users couldn't see a certain color on the website because it could be seen on an Apple monitor, but not on a mass-market laptop's TFT screen.

I worked at a really large social media company, and there was a design which looked beautiful on all of the employee's high-res screens and monitors but used too much space and just didn't work for most of the users. It never got launched, which feels like what should have happened here.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#693

Post by nmeofthestate »

mikae1 wrote: post #562
SanjayMehta wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The support pages are exactly this. They're called Level 0 support in most companies internally.

"Just award them with some stars or points or whatever, and they'll be happy." I wish these people would wake up and spend their time helping peers on a forum for some open source project instead.

For Windows support I assume it accrues some benefit to the unpaid support, like it contributes to them getting their Microsoft Certified Windows End User Support Helpful Guy badge.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#694

Post by pilif »

monooso wrote: post #687
pilif wrote: post #637

As much as I like to hate on a new OS like the next person, I think it's worth pointing out we're probably not seeing the full picture here: When trying to reproduce the problem as shown in the article by resizing the Safari window currently displaying the article, the drag cursor changes shape at the visible border of the window, not the shadow and consequently, dragging works as expected. https://youtu.be/kNovjjvYP…

I'm not sure "it works this way in Application A, and this other way in Application B" is a particularly strong rebuttal.

It wasn't meant as a rebuttal. Just as a point of thought: By showing that at least one application doesn't exhibit the problem, I thought I was showing that the problem might not be related to the Tahoe redesign at all but might have other causes.

It definitely serves to prove that this is not a design-issue but just a simple bug and thus has at least some chance of being fixed.

FWIW, I cannot reproduce the issue demonstrated in the original article with any window of any application on my machine (M1 Mac Studio), but I thought that listing a very commonly used application alone would be enough to challenge the article's assertion ("the macOS designers are stupid because they make me do something that doesn't make sense in order to resize windows").

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#695

Post by pilif »

froddd wrote: post #681
pilif wrote: post #637

As much as I like to hate on a new OS like the next person, I think it's worth pointing out we're probably not seeing the full picture here: When trying to reproduce the problem as shown in the article by resizing the Safari window currently displaying the article, the drag cursor changes shape at the visible border of the window, not the shadow and consequently, dragging works as expected. https://youtu.be/kNovjjvYP…

This is absolutely true. The demo in the original article seems quite deceptive in that respect. Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. The resize pointer seems to show in exactly the right place, and allows for an extra hit area slightly outside the rounded corner — I don’t see any problem with that. As for the fact that one cannot resize f…

> As for the fact that one cannot resize from inside the window,

if you check the screencast I posted, you'll see that you can indeed resize from inside the window. Not by a huge margin, but definitely from inside the actual window boundaries.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#696

Post by mcv »

ketzu wrote: post #609
signal11 wrote: post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Yes, because my apple hardware does not run properly with any other operating system. I would have switched to linux a while ago otherwise.

I would love linux on Apple hardware. Lots of people would, I suspect.

I guess Apple has realized that their hardware is so good that they don't have to worry about the software anymore.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#697

Post by jackwilsdon »

mikkupikku wrote: post #668

The old linux/X11 method of meta+dragging to move or resize windows from anywhere in the window, not having to hunt for the edges of the window, is so obviously superior to Windows and MacOS it's downright silly. They both should have swallowed their pride and implemented this 30 years ago.

Moving windows like this is already built into macOS but it's hidden behind a flag for some reason:

  defaults write -g NSWindowShouldDragOnGesture -bool true
You can then use Control+Command+Click to move windows from anywhere inside them. Sadly this doesn't provide resizing.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#698

Post by [deleted] »

pilif wrote: post #695
froddd wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely true. The demo in the original article seems quite deceptive in that respect. Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. The resize pointer seems to show in exactly the right place, and allows for an extra hit area slightly outside the rounded corner — I don’t see any problem with that. As for the fact that one cannot resize f…

> As for the fact that one cannot resize from inside the window, if you check the screencast I posted, you'll see that you can indeed resize from inside the window. Not by a huge margin, but definitely from inside the actual window boundaries.

[deleted]

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#699

Post by audunw »

coffeeaddict1 wrote: post #545
drob518 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, the programmers aren’t to blame here. In fact some of the visual effects they have achieved are pretty cool. The designers are at fault because they prioritized visuals over usability. Literally nobody I know thinks “Liquid Glass” has been an improvement. The feedback is universally negative.

I hate it too, but to my surprise, all of my colleagues (with an iPhone) said they love because it looks great.

I’ll add a third perspective that’s probably often gone unsaid: I love it on Apple TV, and kinda like it on iPhone and Mac. It definitely needs to be improved though. There are definitely a whole bunch of usability issues, but they shouldn’t be too hard to fix. And Apple has shown willingness to iterate until they get it right. Unlike Microsoft which just moves onto the next thing (the system settings UI design in Windows 11 is fine.. but can they pleeeease just integrate all settings into that UI now.. how many generations of settings / control panes are there in Windows now?)

The huge corner radius is one thing I do wish they reverted in Mac OS.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#700

Post by froddd »

Sweepi wrote: post #684
froddd wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely true. The demo in the original article seems quite deceptive in that respect. Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. The resize pointer seems to show in exactly the right place, and allows for an extra hit area slightly outside the rounded corner — I don’t see any problem with that. As for the fact that one cannot resize f…

> Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. ... great speed? Interpolating from the zoom, I would say its not fast at all.

I’m referring to the demo in the original article. The mouse pointer moves rather rapidly onto the inside of the window. You can just about see the resize pointer flashing as the user does so. I don’t think I ever attempted to resize a window with such erratic mouse movements. Approaching the corner at reasonable speed shows the resize pointer where expected.
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