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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#691
post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

I have a Roomba. Never connected it to wifi or a phone app (no phone). Works great.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also would have preferred to keep it in the country, but the fact is that Amazon does more harm and is a larger threat to Americans and your children than China is. Hence "Of those two choices... I pick China." I would love for there to have been more than those two options, but this is where we ended up after decades of not enforcing anti-trust law, thanks in no small part to Amazon.

>Amazon does more harm and is a larger threat to Americans and your children than China is Yeah, I'm going to need some examples as to how Amazon is worse than China.

See downthread comment[1], and please keep in mind the context of this conversation is specifically, "Amazon does more harm and is a larger threat to Americans than China is".

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46277647

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people deal with cords anymore, and basically I've stopped thinking about those for more than a decade now.

Cordless is nice until the batteries won't charge anymore. Or the charger stops working. Or you forgot to charge it and now want to use it. Or the charging connector gets worn and unreliable. Then you have an expensive battery replacement or other repair or (more likely) you just replace the whole device because it was made to be unrepairable, and now you have several pounds of plastic and e-waste to dispose of. Deal…

If the batteries don't work anymore, I buy a new vaccum. My Dyson was last updated in 2020, it is 2025 now, so I think it is working out? The charging dock works great for not forgetting to replace it.

I guess this is how people felt when they moved from wired phones to wireless phones?

> Dealing with plugging a cord into an outlet is no more burdensome than picking up the socks or shoes before the Roomba wakes up and tries to ingest them.

And dragging the cord around, and having to plug out and re-plug the cord in again because you want to do a different part of the room.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I was a very early customer of Roomba and loved them when they came out. I had pets at the time, and the machine would consistently fail in about 14 months. I finally figured out that I needed to buy them from Costco, so that I could get them replaced. Rather than taking their lead and improving the product, they just sat there with the exact same product for like 10+ years. It was outrageous. I guess Rodney Br…

Rather than taking their lead and improving the product, they just sat there with the exact same product for like 10+ years. It was outrageous. I think that this is actually the only viable strategy for a hardware product company in the current world. As soon as your product is successful, it will be cloned by dozens of Chinese companies and dumped on the market everywhere. Any update you make from there on out will…

How does your theory account for Dyson?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#695
post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I hope you learned your lesson and now won't blindly trust any corporation again, but rather demand open code and full control over the device you bought. Especially if it is a moving camera in your home... At least in the US, the Chinese government realistically should have been the least of your worries. What's China gonna do, if they caught you reading the Quran, or snorting crack? They could livestream your…

> demand open code and full control over the device you bought What do we do with companies/products like Tesla, short of shutting them down? Fully open code and absolute full control seems like it's going too far. Idealistically I like it, but practically I can't see it working.

I was making a point about trust, not what to do about it. If you are American, you should worry about Americans spying on you, as that actually could have consequences for your life and there is well know evidence and a legal foundation to justify such worries.

As non-car owner, I also dislike the Tesla cameras around me. Maybe one solution would be to not have fucking cameras everywhere, if the owner's exclusive access can't be guaranteed, abuse can't be prevented and legal consequences are not enforced. Maybe there should be standards and certification.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people deal with cords anymore, and basically I've stopped thinking about those for more than a decade now.

I'm also a Miele canister vacuum owner, and everywhere in my house where I vacuum is within range of a wall outlet. When I'm done, the cord retracts into the vacuum so I don't need to wind it or stow it myself. I guess, for me, that takes care of the issue to a great enough extent that I just never saw an advantage that justified the expense?

If you are ok with it, I think that's fine. Cordless to me is a huge productivity boost since I can just pick it up and vacuum whenever. I think most people see it as a huge win, but I haven't conducted a formal poll or anything.

Having a robot do everything is just another step in the convenience direction. It is great if you have expensive floors that you want to maintain on a daily or bi-daily basis.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I was a very early customer of Roomba and loved them when they came out. I had pets at the time, and the machine would consistently fail in about 14 months. I finally figured out that I needed to buy them from Costco, so that I could get them replaced. Rather than taking their lead and improving the product, they just sat there with the exact same product for like 10+ years. It was outrageous. I guess Rodney Br…

Rather than taking their lead and improving the product, they just sat there with the exact same product for like 10+ years. It was outrageous. I think that this is actually the only viable strategy for a hardware product company in the current world. As soon as your product is successful, it will be cloned by dozens of Chinese companies and dumped on the market everywhere. Any update you make from there on out will…

This isn't unique to China, it's just the nature of modern manufacturing. The only reason China stands out is because we offshored our manu there, so it's where we see it happen.

I feel like people forget that the entire purpose of factories/ automation/ modern manufacturing was to divorce human skill from product worth (so that companies wouldn't have to pay workers based on skill). That also means that in the realm of physical goods, "moats" are not maintainable unless you have a manufacturing technique or technology that others don't. Since companies rarely create their own production line machinery, anyone else who can afford the same machines can produce the same products.

The actual "viable strategy for hardware companies" has to be about market penetration; make products that aren't on Amazon, for example, and Amazon can't be used to out-maneuver you. Firearms are a great example of where manufacturing capability does not equal competitiveness; China can absolutely produce any firearm that you can buy in the US, but they don't because other factors (mostly related to regulatory controls) created a moat for manufacturers. Vehicles are another good example. Good luck buying an Avatr car in the US.

But yes, if you plan to make a vacuum, which is just you iterating on what others have done as well, you should probably expect that people are going to trivially iterate on your variant too.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#698
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more tractable examples here is the information what cell towers your cell phone is connected to. On it's own, it doesn't tell you that much. But if you have this from 2-3 people, you can start inferring if they are meeting sporadically, meet a lot, possibly live together. Or, if you add information about the services in the vicinity of cell towers, you can start deducing changes in a persons life. Suddenl…

I agree with this completely. I feel like my phone is leaking so much sensitive information about me in so many ways. And it has access to my location, my communications, my finances. And it is hard to turn off. I can turn off my vacuum cleaner for months if I want. I can't turn off my phone or the computer in my car. I guess that's why the vacuum doesn't worry me. The phone really does.

Totally agree, but my point is that you shouldn't be modeling this by looking at various devices and calculating worry thresholds

Just stop leaking willingly leaking bits for little or no upside instead it's much simpler

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. Tesla: * built a lithium refinery * produces its own battery cells * makes its own motors and drivetrains * makes its own car seats * owns and operates a fast-charging network * sells direct, bypassing dealerships * offers insurance integrated with vehicle data * develops its own autopilot AI

Great point, and to drive it home -- TSLA is the only competitive non-Chinese company in the EV space. You could make the argument that it's one of very few successful U.S. manufacturing company winning on purely technical/capitalist terms, considering the whole U.S.-Taiwan stranglehold on chip mfg

> You could make the argument that it's one of very few successful U.S. manufacturing company winning on purely technical/capitalist terms

Except it's not winning on that at all. It's "winning" because Chinese EV brands are barred from selling in the US. You can't buy an Avatr if you want. It's in fact protectionist regulations that allowed Tesla to retain EV dominance in the US, in the face of Chinese competition.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#700
post #685

Seriously, and it's not intended to troll. To all those making catastrophical scenarios, how would a Chinese entity start streaming data from your robot cleaner and, more importantly, how will this be a security breach at your home or worse, nation?

A comment like this belies a complete lack of imagination. Having a view inside the house of anyone remotely in power can be used in all kinds of ways ranging from espionage to simple blackmail. A video of infidelity, large purchases, guest lists at your domicile etc. can be catastrophic for someone that wants something from you.
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