Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#691

Post by maxlybbert » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

lunar-whitey wrote: post #26

throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

Illiterate incoming freshman are the product of the public middle and high school systems, not the university system. For reference: > Beginning in Fall 2022, the number of students placed into Math 2 began to grow rapidly. Math 2 was first created in 2016, and it was originally designed to be a remedial math course serving a very small number of first-year students (less than 100 students a year or around 1% of the…

It so happens I went to high school in California. My math teacher mentioned how much interaction she had with the state universities, and also lamented the fact that universities offered remedial math courses. She felt that if somebody needed remedial math, they shouldn't be in a university; a junior college would be a better fit.

At the time it felt elitist, but now I agree with her. Yes, this example shows that the high schools are doing a bad job, but it's not clear to me that the universities should clean up the mess. There are other possibilities.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#692

Post by tootie » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

kgdiem wrote: post #677

snowwrestler wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don’t want “cheap healthcare,” people want to be healthy. And people don’t want “job training,” people want to be educated and have a fulfilling life. Of course college looks too expensive if it is just “job training.” But that is not what college is. College proved its immense value first , and then because of its obvious value, employers started looking for it. But you’ve let the cart get in front of the hor…

I agree with you in spirit but most people in the US look at college like job training. It’s literally advertised as job training on TV, buses and billboards. Teachers, parents, and media have long been seen as “the way” to get a job. One of the most disappointing things about college was how little people cared about the liberal arts aspect, where humanities courses were an annoying box to tick.

I think that's the disconnect. When college was more rarified, it was populated by a mix of children of privilege and those who had the talent, ambition and desire to expand their minds. That selection bias was enough to predict future success. When the formula was boiled down to "college=success" it became a system to be gamed. Students scraping and cheating to get admission, schools offering easier degrees. The birth of diploma mills where education didn't matter and student life was non-existent. No wonder the value of college seems so diminished.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#693

Post by Aerroon » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

potato3732842 wrote: post #644

randerson wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still $5K more _economic_ value created, in that +$5K went to people who might otherwise be jobless. They'll in turn spend that money at businesses in the private sector, reaching more people, and so on. If the man with the septic tank runs a coffee shop, he will see extra value from more coffee sales. The extra taxes paid by all will (theoretically) improve the schools, roads, military, and services. The re…

>There is still $5K more _economic_ value created, in that +$5K went to people who might otherwise be jobless. They'll in turn spend that money at businesses in the private sector, reaching more people, and so on. If the man with the septic tank runs a coffee shop, he will see extra value from more coffee sales. That's the grade school analysis and in reality we are all poorer for it. If ten people pay $5k to avoid g…

And in some areas it's even worse than that - construction quality for housing can be very poor. You basically need an independent building inspection to not get scammed by poor quality construction.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#694

Post by wavemode » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #271

wavemode wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sustainable to sell a product that most people only buy because they were trying to buy something else (or because they're forced to for societal reasons). That sort of approach is exactly why "Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost" (as the title states)! People are wising up to the truth, and now it's harming the credibility of the system as a whole.

> It's not sustainable to sell a product that most people only buy because they were trying to buy something else (or because they're forced to for societal reasons). Like a car in the United States, outside of perhaps five metro areas?

That's not for societal reasons, that's for practical reasons. People want to be able to get around.

By contrast, many people don't want to be forced to take classes unrelated to their desired area of study.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#695

Post by crossbody » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #571

crossbody wrote: post #47

Most of you here assume the "Human Capital" model (i.e. you pay to acquire skills), but that entirely misses the actual point of a college degree! 2001 Nobel Prize went for demonstrating that college is basically a quarter million dollar IQ and Marshmallow Test. It's a filtering mechanism that allows employers to tell who is smart and conscientious enough to be productive at work. Offering education to more and more…

You don't think tradespeople are contientious, intelligent, or productive? That's the whole trouble with this filtering signal. It's bogus and has created elitism around professions that are just as hard if not harder than pushing computer keys.

Would you say all people have the same level of intelligence and conscientiousness? If not, we need _some_ way of saying who is, so that they could be matched to higher complexity jobs. It's far for perfect but it works somewhat

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#696

Post by lambdaphagy » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

timmytokyo wrote: post #621

rayiner wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. was already the richest country in the world per capita by 1880–even at the peak of the British Empire. Most of its military achievements during the war—building up the world’s largest Navy and airforce from almost nothing within a couple of years—was a product of the industrial economy that already existed before the war. America’s preference for common wisdom over book learning is a strength, not a weaknes…

I see very little evidence for this abundance of American "common wisdom". If anything, America has always had a deeply anti-intellectual vein running through it, whether it was the Scopes monkey trial, the Know Nothing Party or what you see in the present political scene. Higher education, especially the affordable kind at public universities, has been a bulwark against the paranoid delusions that often dominate soc…

The Know Nothing Party had nothing to do with anti-intellectualism per se. It was a secret anti-immigration party whose members were required to say they “knew nothing” of the group if asked.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#697

Post by chrisweekly » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #650

rayiner wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. was already the richest country in the world per capita by 1880–even at the peak of the British Empire. Most of its military achievements during the war—building up the world’s largest Navy and airforce from almost nothing within a couple of years—was a product of the industrial economy that already existed before the war. America’s preference for common wisdom over book learning is a strength, not a weaknes…

America's post-war strength was built on unusually strong education. After the war, America had far more schooling overall than other countries. It was one of the many factors that made America a powerhouse in the 50s and 60s. Economic historians Claudia Goldin and Lawrence Katz, who are essentially the gold standard reference here, show that the US became the richest nation precisely because it led the world in mass…

+1 outstanding rebuttal w/ facts and data-backed insights, thank you for that

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#698

Post by snowwrestler » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

kgdiem wrote: post #677

snowwrestler wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don’t want “cheap healthcare,” people want to be healthy. And people don’t want “job training,” people want to be educated and have a fulfilling life. Of course college looks too expensive if it is just “job training.” But that is not what college is. College proved its immense value first , and then because of its obvious value, employers started looking for it. But you’ve let the cart get in front of the hor…

I agree with you in spirit but most people in the US look at college like job training. It’s literally advertised as job training on TV, buses and billboards. Teachers, parents, and media have long been seen as “the way” to get a job. One of the most disappointing things about college was how little people cared about the liberal arts aspect, where humanities courses were an annoying box to tick.

Teenagers do not understand the true value of things. This is not news and not restricted to the field of education. “You’ll need to get a good job someday” is one of the all-purpose lines adults use when harassing them into making better life choices.

College makes a person more capable in general, which confers long-term competitiveness during a career. That’s why parents want their kids to go to college. And the great thing is it works even if the kid is just checking the box. It works better if they are engaged and enthusiastic, of course.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#699

Post by yatopifo » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

anonymars wrote: post #631

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear I have no problem passing these interviews, I just spent a few weeks cramming leetcode and got a job at Google. Leetcode wasn’t the main reason I was hired, but it was a filter that I had to get through (I’ve never been given fizzbuzz before, but I assume that is just because it’s no longer in style and hasn’t been for more than a decade). You just don’t throw yourself into on the fly coding, you pra…

This is FizzBuzz: 1. Output the numbers from 1 to 100 2. If the number is a multiple of 3, write Fizz instead of the number 3. If the number is a multiple of 5, write Buzz instead of the number 4. If the number is a multiple of 3 and 5, write FizzBuzz instead of the number Does that really sound like something requiring special practice and preparation? Assuming a decent interviewer would help out with the modulo ope…

Is it provided as you described or is it more like “please do FizzBuzz”? If it’s the latter, that would explain why some people may have trouble with this task… I think we both agree it’s ridiculous to test if the interviewee knows what FizzBuzz stands for, and yet… let’s just say i know a few people who treat interviews as a jargon recall context.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#700

Post by mullingitover » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

Peter Thiel seen rubbing his greasy palms together at this news. It wouldn't be surprising to learn that he somehow engineered this poll himself.

Thiel and his ilk are eager to shove the US back into feudalism, with themselves at the top like some kind of warmed-over Borgia family. An educated populace that is capable of operating a democracy competently is absolutely intolerable for them.