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I don't care how well your "AI" works

fokus.cool

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#691
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies who now have piles of cash because they eliminated a huge chunk of labor will spend far more on new projects, many of which will require tradesmen. Economic waves never hit one sector and stop. The waves continues across the entire economy. You can’t think “companies will get rid of huge amounts of labor” and then stop asking questions. You need to then ask “what will companies do with decreased labor c…

> Economic waves never hit one sector and stop. Unless they do, or are severely weakened. Consider the net worth of the 1% over the last few decades. Even corrected for inflation, its growth is staggering. The wealth gap is widening, and that wealth came from somewhere. So yes, when there is an economic boom, investment happens. However, the growth of that top %1 tells me that they've been taking more and more off th…

Jeff Bezos has a 233 billion net worth. It's not because Amazon users overpaid by a 233 billion but because his share in Amazon is highly valued by investors.

My own Amazon investment in my pension has also gone up by 10x in the last 10 years, just like Jeff's. Where did the value increase come from?

Is this idea of the stock market good for us? I don't know, but it's paper money until you sell it.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is bad. I'm not ignorant to this fact that it helped us for quite a long time but it also created climate change. Overpopulation. We are still stuck on planet earth, have not figured out the reason for live or the origin of the universe. I would prefer a world were we think about using all the resources earth provides sustainable and how to use them the most efficient way for the max amount of human beings…

How did capitalism create overpopulation? Isn’t that more related to agriculture and better medical tech?

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#694
post #242

I really enjoyed how your words made me _feel._ They encouraged me to "keep fighting the good fight" when it comes to avoiding social media, et. al. I do Vibe Code occasionally, Claude did a decent job with Terraform and SaltStack recently, but the words ring true in my head about how AI weakens my thinking, especially when it comes to Python or any programming language. Tread carefully indeed. And reading a book doe…

Doesn't Python weaken your thinking about how computers actually work?

you mean by calling arrays "lists"?

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One didn't even wait, they immediately tried to sub-contract the work out to a third party and make a transition from a consultant to a consultancy company. I had to be clear that they are hired as named person and I very much do care about who does the work.While not FANG comp it was ~2x the market rates, statistically I think they'd have a hard time matching that somewhere else. I think in part because I was offeri…

I think I see the problem: you're running a consulting company, and complaining that your mercenaries aren't very good or loyal.

I've not run a consultancy firm, I've previously worked as a consultant, but these people were hired to work on product.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#697
post #414

I think we can all agree AI is a bubble, and is over-hyped. I think we can ignore any pieces that say "AI is all bad" or "AI is all good" or "I've never used AI but...". It's nuanced, can be abused, but can be beneficial when used responsibly in certain ways. It's a tool. It's a powerful tool, so treat it like a powerful tool: learn about it enough to safely use it in a way to improve your life and those around you.…

Commenting on the internet points (this article is having), I realised I was reading most of the popular things here for some time, months, and it was such a huge and careless waste of my time…

So I’m not even surprised it’s having so many internet points. As if they were the sign of quality, then the opposite. Bored not very smart people thinking the more useless junk they consume, the better off they’ll become. Doesn’t work that way.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is a way out: we need to create a culture that values craftmanship and dignifies work done by developers. We need to talk seriously and plainly about the spiritual and existential damage done by LLMs" This is the exact sentiment when said about some other profession or craft, countless people elsewhere and on HN have noted that it's neither productive not wise to be so precious about a task that evolved as a n…

I'm firmly in the “don't want to use it; if you want to, feel free, but stop nagging me to” camp. Oh, and the “I'm not accepting 'the AI did it' as an excuse for failures” camp. Just like outsourcing to other humans: you chose the tool(s), you are responsible for verifying the output. I got into programming and kicking infrastructure because I'm the sort of sad git who likes the details, and I'm not about to let some…

“Don’t want… “not accepting”

Now this, putting aside my thoughts above, i find a compelling argument. You just don’t want to. I think that should go along with a reasonable understanding of what a person is choosing to not use, but I’ll presume you have that.

Then? Sure, the frustrating part is to see someone making that choice tell other people that theirs is invalid, especially when we don’t know what the scene will look like when the dust settles.

There’s no reason to think there wouldn’t be room for “pure code” folks. I use the camera comparison— I fully recognize it doesn’t map in all respect to this. But the idea that painters should have given up paint?

There were in fact people at the time who said, “Painting is dead!”. Gustav Flaubert, famous author, said painting was obsolete. Paul Delaroche Actually said it was dead. Idiots. Amazingly talented and accomplished, but short sighted, idiots. Well like be laughing at some amazing and talented people making such statement about code today in the same light.

Code as art? Well, two things: 1) LLM’s have tremendous difficulty parsing very dense syntax, and then addressing the different pieces and branching ideas. Even now. I’m guessing this transfers to code that must be compact, embedded, and optimized to a precision such that sufficient training data, generalizable to the task with all the different architectures of microcontrollers and embedded systems… not yet. My recommendation to coders who want to look for areas where AI will be unsuitable? There’s plenty of room at the bottom. Career has never taken me there, but the most fun I’ve had coding has been homebrew microcontrollers.

2) code as art. Not code to produce art, or not something separable from the code that created it. Think Thing minor things from the past like the obfuscated C challenges. Much of that older hacker ethos is fundamentally an artistic mindset. Art has a business model, some enterprising person aught to crack the code of coding code into a recognized art form where aesthetic is the utility.

I don’t even mean the visual code, but that is viable: Don’t many coders enjoy the visual aesthetic of source code, neatly formatted, colored to perfect contrasts between types etc? I doubt that’s the limit of what could be visually interesting, something that still runs. Small audience for it sure— same with most art.

Doesn’t matter, I doubt that will be something masses of coders turn to, but my point is simply that there are options there are options that involve continuing the “craft” aspects you enjoy, whether my napkin doodle of an idea above holds or not. The option, for many, may simply not include keeping the current trajectory of their career. Things change: not many professional coders that began at 20 in 1990 have been able— or willing— to stay in the narrow area they began in. I knew some as a kid that I still know, some that managed to stay on that same path. He’s a true craftsman at COBOL. When I was a bit older in one of my first jobs he helped me learn my way around a legacy VMS cluster. Such things persist, reduced in proportion to the rest is all. But that is an aspect of what’s happening today.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#699
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know how many fewer man hours it takes me now. But how much has your hourly rate risen?

If you are “consulting” on an hourly rate, you’re doing it wrong. The company and I get paid for delivering projects not the number of hours we work. A smaller project may just say they have me for 6 weeks with known deliverable. I’m rarely working 40 hours a week. When I did do one short term project independently, I gave them the amount I was going to charge for the project based on the requirements. All consulting…

You are kind of dodging the question. It sounds like you are not making more money or working fewer hours because of AI.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#700

> I find it particularly disillusioning to realize how deep the LLM brainworm is able to eat itself even into progressive hacker circles. That's the thing, hacker circles didn't always have this 'progressive' luddite mentality. This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. I don't like AI, generally. I am skeptical of corporate influence, I doubt AI 2027 and so-called 'AGI'. I'm certain we'll be "five years away"…

> This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. Somewhere along the lines of "everybody can code," we threw out the values and aesthetics that attracted people in the first place. What began as a rejection of externally imposed values devolved into a mouthpiece of the current powers and principalities. This is evidenced by the new set of hacker values being almost purely performative when compared against the old…

"We routinely devalue craftsmanship because it doesn't bow down to almighty Business Impact."

I actually disagree with this pretty fundamentally. I've never seen hacker culture as defined by "craftsmanship" so much as about getting things done. When I think of our culture historically, it's cleverness, quick thinking, building out quick and dirty prototypes in weekend "hackathons", startup culture that cuts corners to get an MVP product out there. I mean, look at your URL bar: do you think YC companies are prioritizing artisanal lines of code?

We didn't trade craftsmanship for "Business Impact". The latter just aligns well with our culture of Getting Shit Done. Whether it's for play (look at the jank folks bring out to the playa that's "good enough") or business, the ethos is the same.

If anything, I feel like there has been more of an attempt to erase/sideline our actual culture by folks like y'all as a backlash against AI. But frankly, while a lot of us scruffy hacker types might have some concerns about AI, we also see a valuable tool that helps us move faster sometimes. And if there's a good tool that gets a thing done in a way that I deem satisfactory, I'm not going to let someone's political treatise get in my way. I'm busy building.

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