Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Homeschooling hits record numbers

reason.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 878 posts

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#691

Post by burnt-resistor »

Homeschooling makes zero sense unless one or both parents are independently wealthy and already excellent academic communicators and there are firm, minimum subject milestones set by the state that must be achieved and reported on. Instead, it's being widely abused much like the anti-vaxx movement to opt out of society, norms, and replace education and healthcare with religion. And then it begs credulity why they are so many kids dying and losing their immune systems (IA because measles attacks the immune system) from an entirely preventable disease that has a safe and effective vaccine that was previously mandatory for everyone. And then it follow: what good is there in allowing some parents to selectively opt their kids out of society, a fundamental right of passage, and an essential public good to ensure socialization and universal education. Division of labor, specialization of trade for most means sending kids to properly funded, staffed, and sensible curricula public schools so the parents are freed up to earn more and make the family's life better.

There are some parents who might be Yale law grads who might not be rich who opt for some homeschooling given the right situation, but these are the outliers and I'm okay with these, while most aren't.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#692

Post by nsagent »

bdangubic wrote: post #662
drivebyhooting wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they’ll have more options than I did. I never wanted to be a SWE working in social media, but grad school in pure math showed me I wasn’t good enough. A common story.

your kids will have amazing opportunities just because you are obviously a kick ass parent. but I don’t think squeezing two years of math in 6 months will do anything

As a bright student who was never challenged in K-12, I can unequivocally state that this ultimately hurt me in the long run. I seriously didn't know how to study and didn't care to try learning when I actually needed it in some of my undergrad courses.

For example, when I took trigonometry in high school I did none of the homework, showed up to the tests and aced them. That led me to getting a C in that class (kindly the teacher advanced me to pre-calc, but forced me to retake trig as well). That's basically the attitude I had throughout high school and undergrad. I'm positive I could have amounted to more earlier in life (only years later did I return to academia to earn my PhD in CS after tiring of industry).

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#693

Post by moron4hire »

ecshafer wrote: post #244
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

> But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

As person who was homeschooled in a large homeschooling community, no, I now believe at a fundamental level that not only is it not possible to adequately difference homeschooled children, it very much defeats the updated-but- always it is not possible to "get good socialization". There are two issues: the gross tonnage of exposure to other people is just not possible in homeschooling, and, there's a fundamental difference between the kinds of socialization.

I believe there is value in being forced into socializing with people you may not like. I did not experience what one might call "involuntary socialization" until my first job out of college. It took me a very long time to learn how to exist comfortably in a world where not everyone would agree with me, like me, see me as an equal, or treat me with respect.

In institutional education environments and in jobs, you don't get a choice who you have around you. You have to learn how to deal with that. Taking the kids to karate class doesn't teach them that because most everyone at karate class wants to be there.

Any voluntary socialization arrangement is--by definition--a self-selection into a group with at least one point of commonality: you are so there for the thing, the activity.

Involuntary socialization arrangements expose you to others where your overlapping demographic is nothing more than just geographic circumstance. Many people don't learn how to deal with that in public schools: it's where antisocial behavior comes from. But *every" homeschooled kid will miss that lesson completely.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#694

Post by moron4hire »

eucyclos wrote: post #573
prng2021 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime I see these kinds of arguments, it sounds like someone desperately trying to argue that a park playground is almost as entertaining for kids as an amusement park. Your example of 5 kids socializing with each other is definitely better than 1 kid at home. It’s also definitely worse than learning to socialize in a school of 500 kids each day. This is undeniable unless you have an argument of how a pool of 500…

>This is undeniable unless you have an argument of how a pool of 500 kids would somehow have less diversity of personality, thought, languages, physical features, intelligence, etc. I have such an argument - have you considered the amount of forced social conformity in a public school versus a community of homeschooled people? Humans are weird in a way that 'public school culture' tries to paper over.

Everyone will eventually be exposed to some form of forced social conformity. You cannot shield your children from it forever. It is better that they experience it now and you do your job as the parent to teach them how to handle it appropriately.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#695

Post by synecdoche »

vel0city wrote: post #383
nlavezzo wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What leads you to believe the reason parents are willing to dedicate huge amounts of their time and money to homeschool their children is racism? Maybe it's: - the terrible educational state of the school system? - the fact that device and social media addiction is a prevalent and growing problem that they don't want their kids brains rotted by? - they want to provide their kids an education based on experiential and…

> What leads you to believe the reason parents are willing to dedicate huge amounts of their time and money to homeschool their children is racism? A lot of the people I know who do homeschool (the extreme majority of families I know) have openly said the reasons why they're choosing to homeschool is because they don't want their kids exposed to the other "cultures" in their area whether that be immigrants, other rel…

> they don't want their kids exposed to the other "cultures" in their area whether that be immigrants, other religions, or LGBT people.

Culture is distinct from race. Some cultures advocate for the destruction of others. Some don't.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#696

Post by vlovich123 »

edoceo wrote: post #654
DANmode wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Under 18, the mind is closer to those +/- a few years from you, developmentally (and generally speaking). At least, that's what the know-it-alls were telling me when I was listening. Both pro and con home-school "zealots". Age peers is a thing

Peers in what sense? There are clearly examples of kids that are both erudite many years beyond their age and kids that excel in technical subjects well beyond their years. Clearly a distribution exists and it’s wider than +/- a few years even if that covers 1 or even 2 standard deviations.

For what it’s worth I’ve even met adults who can’t regulate and control their emotional reactions. They often have a prison background which either caused it or why they ended up in prison.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#697

Post by aiauthoritydev »

For anyone reading this the following context would be helpful:

1. Home schooling does not necessarily (and in most cases) does not mean a kid learning at home with parents. It only means parents have arranged for adequen learning through alternative means.

2. In many cases, multiple parents and their kids come together and take responsibility of their kids education. They may rent spaces, they may hire teachers and so on.

3. In many cases you have to satisfy government penpushers that you are doing a good job of this.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#698

Post by hackable_sand »

sarchertech wrote: post #640
ethbr1 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, good training for exactly the same pressures they'll face as adults?

I’m not against public schools, but pretending the social pressures are anywhere near similar is wrong. Kids are assholes in a way that would get most adults fired or imprisoned. There are social pressures to conform, but you don’t get called names for wearing off brand shoes the way kids were when I was in grade school.

They are the same pressures. They occur in the same proportions.

Children are just really bad at it so it is extremely obvious. The rituals do not disappear when you turn 18. They do not disappear when you turn 98.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#699

Post by synecdoche »

valar_m wrote: post #249
Redster wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The positives you experienced are very possible for a homeschooled student as well, and this seems to be a common boogieman. Other factors seem to play a much larger factor in the things you are (rightfully!) concerned about. As long as the parents have "the will to have nice things" (to refer to Patrick McKenzie's concept), then these are very surmountable problems. Respectfully, A grateful dad who was homeschooled…

>The positives you experienced are very possible for a homeschooled student as well, and this seems to be a common boogieman. How do you do that? Seems like it would be impossible to replicate the experience of learning to navigate daily social interactions in a mixed group of people, especially when it comes to dealing with conflict.

> especially when it comes to dealing with conflict.

What makes you think school is a good environment for that? Kids can be very cruel to each other with often the most societally maladapted dominating for reasons that have no bearing in real life.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#700

Post by jauntywundrkind »

jen20 wrote: post #163
logical_proof wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judgment and sense are not earned... they are taught. Tell me how teachers demand any less than total respect from domineered children? Maybe Pink Floyd had no basis for Another Brick In The Wall? I would ask who is more qualified than their parents to instill in their children judgement and sense? You might argue that there are morally bankrupt parents but I would counter that there are morally bankrupt teachers and…

> I would ask who is more qualified than their parents to instill in their children judgement and sense? That largely depends on the parents. Many are _wildly_ unfit for this.

Even if the parents are quite good, I think most humans require a wide variety of inputs and relationships to form their judgement and sense around. No family is capable of providing the broad range of experiences required to form good judgement and sense: that requires some unconstrained experience with the world, seeing much more than what a curated family experience can make happen.
Post reply on HN