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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#691

Post by UmGuys »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #467
hedora wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning helped get Trump in. It’s hard to say what Harris would have done, but it’s unlikely she would have greenlit the complete demolition of Gaza so she could build a resort. Similarly, I doubt she would have forced places like UC Berkeley to send her lists of people critical of Israel (like you), then opened critical investigations against them. Refusing to vote is the best way to ensure policies y…

Committing genocide helped Trump win. That’s squarely on democrats.

I don't really understand this perspective. Obviously the consensus position across both parties has been to support Israel more. This is a bit murky with the (for lack of a better term) Nazi elements of maga, but GOP still claims to want to arm them more.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#692

Post by [deleted] »

jbstack wrote: post #660
dluan wrote: post #525

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart. PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list…

For those of us not in the loop, what is PG, SV, and YC (I guess that the latter is ycombinator)?

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#693

Post by mjburgess »

jokoon wrote: post #653

[flagged]

Every major genocide I can think of has been precipitated by the actions of the victim group against the oppressor group. Indeed, in many cases, it's explicit that the perpetrators were looking for just such a pretence.

The most serious genocide we're all aware of began, indeed, with a terrorist incident (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht) -- a jewish boy assassinated a german diplomat.

This comment also conflates Hamas with the civilian population of gaza. The genocide isnt against Hamas -- we all regard israel's killing of enemy military combtants as not included in this crime.

Here's an interview with a senior UNICEF worker about israel's actions against the civilian population : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAo2j6aih0

This is not about israel incidentally hitting civilians. It's about the deliberate policy of mass starvation, withholding of medical supplies (incubators, pain killers, the lot), and the placing of the only "allowed" aid-distribution centres (4 out of a previous 400) in the middle of active war zones -- so that to recieve any aid at all, you have to go through active fire.

This has nothing to do with israel's actions against Hamas

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#694

Post by mjburgess »

dotancohen wrote: post #263
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this is meaningful because for the first time a legitimate international body is calling this a genocide. Previously, it’s been activists and claims that this might be genocide. I haven’t read the report yet. But I will, and I intend to leave my mind open as to whether this raises the profile of this war in my mind relative to domestic issues.

Go read this UNHCR report. All the evidence is just circular references to other bodies who reference each other. The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". That idea was because Israel could name 17% of the casualties in Hamas registers as members of the organization. But assuming that every other casualty is a civilian is quite a stretch. For one th…

Here's an interview with a UNICEF worker who has spent a great deal of time on the ground:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAo2j6aih0

This is not about israel incidentally hitting civilians. It's about the deliberate policy of mass starvation, withholding of water, withholding of medical supplies (incubators, pain killers, the lot), and the placing of the only "allowed" aid-distribution centres (4 out of a previous 400) in the middle of active war zones -- so that to recieve any aid at all, you have to go through active fire.

This has nothing to do with israel's actions against Hamas.

There's a very large list of actions that can only be targeted against the civilian population, and have aimed-at and realised a genocide.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#696

Post by ragazzina »

EchoReflection wrote: post #368
therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

[flagged]

>"anti-Israel" narratives are being crafted by powerful forces.

If we are talking about propaganda machines, US/CIA are "pro-israel". Facebook/Google are "pro-israel". Russia/KGB are "pro-israel". India is "pro-israel". Mossad is "pro-israel".

Which "powerful forces" are on the same level but on the opposite side?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#698

Post by _factor »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #567
endorphine wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he still vocal about it? Do you have any recent comments of his to share?

He is, he regularly posts about it on X. I really admire his commitment to ethics. It says a lot that even for him, it must be difficult.

My best friend since childhood is Jewish and has a difficult time even acknowledging there is an issue. My other friend works for an Israeli company and the jokes are about what they’re going to do with the flattened Gaza land.

I’m not sure which is worse. In one case ignoring it and pretending your morality is in tact, on the other being crass but knowing full well no one will stop this until it’s too late (as planned).

Do we really need a “Human Lives Matter” movement? Are our leaders space lizards? How much blackmail has the Israeli intelligence community accumulated? How much blackmail has it generated by clandestinely helping foreign politicians?

There is a reason the world is silent, and it’s rotten.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#699

Post by ignoramous »

xyzal wrote: post #668

What charity can one donate to? I just can't stand just doing nothing anymore.

Many. A few from the top of my head:

PCRF (children relief fund): https://www.pcrf.net/

Heal Palestine (meals and patients): https://www.healpalestine.org/

PRCS (first responders): https://x.com/PalestineRCS/status/1721839906605998526

The Sameer Project (camps & tents): https://linktr.ee/thesameerproject

---

Afaik, these organizations barely bring in £50m collectively. For context, FIDF, the largest non-governmental American donor to the Israeli military, has gift £1.5bn+ in the past decade (£500m+ in the last 3 years).

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#700

Post by adastra22 »

jbstack wrote: post #667
EchoReflection wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So what? The fact that Hamas or its supporters produce fake anti-Israel propaganda doesn't mean that Israel isn't committing genocide. To suggest so is to engage in the fallacy of composition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition ): (1) "Hamas produces a lot of fake anti-Israel propaganda" -> (2) "All anti-Israel evidence is fake" -> (3)"Israel is not committing genocide". You can't reach conclusion…

You: "Look at these videos showing genocide in Gaza!"

Him: "Those videos are demonstrably fake."

You: "Doesn't matter!"

Are you sure that's the right fallacy?

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