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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

greeneuropeanjournal.eu

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#691

Post by afavour »

okdood64 wrote: post #280
deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

Thank you for this. This is precisely my issue with public transport in the US (granted my experience has only been in SF, Oakland, NYC and Chicago). It’s emotionally taxing when you need to keep your guard up all the time. I can’t even imagine how much worse it would be on someone if they had kids to tow around as well.

I take my kids on the NYC subway very often. It isn't emotionally taxing because the vast, vast majority of journeys encounter no issues at all. What you're describing is a self inflicted state of mind.

I don't drive as often but I've run into far more potentially dangerous situations driving on the highway with my kids than I have on the subway.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#692

Post by LargeWu »

ericmay wrote: post #668
piva00 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it has anything to do with free speech laws, it's simply civics and the lack of it in American society due to a multitude of factors. American society doesn't understand collectivism in any level, your country has been built upon individualism without much care for collective living, you just reap what you've sown.

I'm not sure that's quite the case, because as a country we do tend to be rather compassionate when motivated to do so. You frequently hear from travelers "Americans are the nicest folks you'll meet" and I generally believe that's true. It's not about individualism vs collectivism, but lack of empathy enforced through transportation methods that by design create a lack of social cohesion. Scandinavian countries for e…

Americans might be nice, but they're not necessarily kind.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#693

Post by erentz »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #688
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

There is another practical reality that separates the US from Europe specifically with respect to walkability. The US has much more extreme weather in many places. What would be called severe heat or cold in much of Europe, which I've suffered through for the week if need be, is normal weather in many parts of the US for several months on end. You need alternative transportation for those extended periods. Few people…

And yet Seattle has very few pedestrianized spaces for the size of the city. It’s as car dominated and sprawling as any major North American city.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#694

Post by com2kid »

everdrive wrote: post #537
deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

>The worst argument anybody can make is "but that's just life in the big city!" A cousin was visiting us in our nice suburb. We had a slow, not-busy road we walked on when we lived there, and we'd wave to anyone; neighbors, vehicles, etc. Our cousin was sort of uncomfortable, and asked "do you know all these people?" I explained that we knew some of them but were just being polite and friendly. She explained that tha…

I live in Seattle and we wave to our neighbors every day. We also have block parties with big cookouts, kids running up and down the streets and sidewalks playing with each other after school, and I get to enjoy a highly walkable lifestyle. My son's normal is multiple parks within a few blocks, walking to a small grocery store to pickup ingredients to make dinner, and having multiple friends he can walk to and visit throughout the day.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#695

Post by Gud »

DuckConference wrote: post #556
Gud wrote: post #367

Writing this on a tram in Zürich. At this hour(peak hours) they depart ever 2-3 minutes or so. Walking distance is 50 meters. It feels great. Now let me hear your objections to why public transport could never work at your location

Switzerland's extreme wealth makes them a bit of an outlier though, other european countries are probably a fairer comparisons for most places.

I would argue having functioning public transport is a must to generate extreme wealth.

I travel all across Europe for work and only few places has similarly functioning public transport as Zürich. Stockholm city center, that's about it.

I am not from Switzerland.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#696

Post by mothballed »

afavour wrote: post #689
mothballed wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It applies to public transit specifically because people have freedom of speech to be assholes on public transit. If I have an uber or a private taxi or even a private collectivo which is a private system that works like public transit in much the 3rd world, if I get sick of someone panhandling for the Nth time I can kick them the fuck out. If you look at places with nice public transit like Germany or Japan, they ha…

I don't think that's true at all. Police in NYC are able to remove passengers who are being a nuisance, there just aren't enough of them to police every car of every subway train. In my experience (as an NYC resident) the people causing problems on the subway aren't just being assholes for the sake of it. They're homeless, have mental issues or frequently both. I suspect when you visit Germany or Japan you're seeing…

You don't need police to trespass someone in private transit though. You can just tell them to leave, and if they don't they can be made to leave (depending on the state). If you're familiar with bouncers you understand this function.

Expecting a police to be available to every transit disturbance, I agree, is not going to end with a functional outcome.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#697

Post by Saline9515 »

froddd wrote: post #625
Saline9515 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous because a city provides many ways for a cyclist to fall or hit something or someone. In France, data shows that 2/3 of cyclists' "serious accidents" don't involve another road user. https://www.cerema.fr/system/files/documents/2024/05/3._2024...

The data you present does not say that: > 35% des cyclistes tués, 63% des cyclistes blessés gravement le sont dans un accident sans autre véhicule impliqué. 35% of cyclist deaths, and 63% of cyclist seriously injured occur in an accident with no other party involved. Another graph in that report shows that a vast majority of cyclist deaths occur while cycling for leisure. I would hazard that most cycling in cities is…

"63% of cyclist seriously injured occur in an accident with no other party involved" Is exactly what I said, as 63% is roughly 2/3.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#698

Post by mothballed »

groggler wrote: post #686
mothballed wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that America is a wealthy country, where anyone with a job even flipping burgers can buy a 150cc motorcycle and then take his girl on a date without a process that involves getting accosted by a paranoid schizophrenic? You can basically buy a small motorcycle or scooter or fast e-bike on credit for the cost of maintaining a bus pass. It's only a rational choice for elderly or people with such ment…

Yeah, great.. I was recently hit by a paranoid schizophrenic on a E scooter.. More logically he could have been denied access since he had plenty of public transportation options where he wouldn't have gone on to eventually maime people.

I don't have any reason to believe a paranoid schizophrenic capable of buying and maintaining a scooter is going to be any more persuaded to use public transit than anyone else. They are going to use alternatives for the same reason the rest of us do.

The ones using public transit are generally the ones with functional issues to the point they can't even get to that point of having a functional e scooter to crash.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#699

Post by Saline9515 »

crote wrote: post #604
Saline9515 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous because a city provides many ways for a cyclist to fall or hit something or someone. In France, data shows that 2/3 of cyclists' "serious accidents" don't involve another road user. https://www.cerema.fr/system/files/documents/2024/05/3._2024...

In other words, you want them to invest more money into building safer cyclist infrastructure? An obstacle isn't going to magically pop into existence the moment you mount a bicycle. Car-centric road design can indeed be dangerous to cyclists, but that says more about the road design than it does about the concept of cycling . Build better roads and cycling isn't dangerous!

Do you live in a world where money is infinite? I'd rather have very good public transport, which is accessible to everyone, safe and can give physical workers so rest and a quiet time after work, than bike lanes everywhere.

And the problem with removing cars from the city center is that many users still need cars, either because they have families, or because they work and need a motorized vehicle (e.g a plumber).

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#700

Post by goosejuice »

MisterTea wrote: post #635
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

I was in Spain last month and what stood out is that walkability requires mom and pop stores as well as more integrated neighborhoods with small commercial shops mixed into residential. Small shops seemed to be the majority in the city centers. The only large store I saw was a Lidl. They have largeish indoor markets that are more like a mini mall of individual shops like a butcher, produce, baker, cheese, even restau…

Mixed use zoning and some rules on what businesses can open would go a long way. Where I live I can walk to a small downtown that spans a few blocks with a train station. Unfortunately there is no where to buy groceries. There's like 3 ice cream shops, 3 pizza joints, and 9 salons though.
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