We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own • Hacker News Board

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#691

Post by ivanmontillam » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:05 PM UTC

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

If you live outside the US, it's even worse with WhatsApp.

If for whatever reason you dislike WhatsApp, you just can't also be a society's functioning member.

Some companies have decided to deprecate email and phone support and only have a WhatsApp chat, potentially with AI slop. I've had to discontinue my services with some of these companies because of that.

Even some government services are going through WhatsApp; I've had to be there in person, among senior citizens just because of their tech choices.

I pretty much vouch for "vote with your wallet," but I am running out of alternatives.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#692

Post by hoppp » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:06 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #560

hoppp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is understandable, most people are not technical but the few who has a need for it should have an option for it. As a developer I write apps for myself and I side-load them. Why take away my right to do so, just because other people can't then nobody should?

Because you’re in a tiny minority and it’s more important that more people be protected from malware. Buy a specifically open phone, and support that market segment.

Well luckily its illegal to do this in Europe due to the Digital Markets Act, so maybe the tiny minority can win .

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#693

Post by ngcc_hk » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

Run meant run ok and that meant support if it not running … should have the ability meant we can do it on our own … does it major any sense in general. No.

You can agree on anti-monopoly but to say we (who is we here) can do this without any resource consideration is not thinking but wishful thinking.

Open source is not wishful thinking but until the user pay …

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#694

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

xandrius wrote: post #674

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #668

Programmers make the same Faustian bargain with all these "safe" languages. No, please, don't let me touch memory! It's too dangerous. Give me a nice bubble wrapped playpen to "program" in.

What a weird take, here we're discussing fighting the duopoly and hegemony of 2 US companies dictating what and how to use our own devices. Complaining about programming languages which allow me not to think of malloc bugs when making something not critical makes no sense whatsoever.

It's trading freedom for safety in a different domain no? We deride normies for preferring their closed down operating systems and mobile devices yet make our own freedom/safety trade in our own domain.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#695

Post by abtinf » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:09 PM UTC

junon wrote: post #484

abtinf wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every point you raised is in fact evidence for how they are weaker than governments.

It depends on how you quantify it, which isn't really possible and isn't even the point of the comment. It really feels like you're being intentionally obtuse here. The point was that they seem to be impervious to many governments. That would be having, by at least some measure, more power than the government. They weren't meaning they were literal comparisons of amounts of power.

You’re upset because I won’t help you evade the fact that you are intentionally conflating two distinct concepts:

“Power” meaning the infliction violence and physical coercion with the force of law.

“Power” meaning the ability to make money by designing products and services people voluntary trade for.

This is always an intentional confusion intended to deceive and manipulate.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#696

Post by tqwhite » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #660

dataflow wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

I have exactly one to choose from. Two thirds of americans households have exactly two, exactly the same number as the count of googles and apples.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#697

Post by tqwhite » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:12 PM UTC

You can. You can jailbreak your iPhone. I assume you can do so with Android. Problem solved.

Oh, you want to jailbreak it and use it as an authenticator? No. That doesn't seem like a reasonable requirement.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#698

Post by rickdeckard » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:13 PM UTC

dataflow wrote: post #653

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

Your ISP is an utility, it doesn't hold your de-facto identity.

Google and Apple increasingly become the entity required to identify yourself, either directly ("login with Google/Apple to participate") or indirectly ("use our App on iOS/Android to confirm your identity and participate")

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#699

Post by zigzag312 » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:14 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #622

zigzag312 wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provided an alterative solution yourself. Make protection harder to disable, so non-tech savvy users can't disable it easily, always inform them of the consequences of disabling it and make it that it's only needed in exceptional cases (there a lot of room for improvement here). If they want to climb over the protection fence, they should be able to do it as they clearly WANT to do it. Why should you have control…

> always inform them of the consequences This would be about as useful as telling the cat why he can’t go out right now. The words would not be understood, as they won’t be by probably 90% of humanity. > If they want to… They don’t. Categorically. The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. > Why should you have control w…

You are overblowing it out of proportions. Majority of people are capable of understanding warnings just fine, you're not that special. When they can't, it's usually because it was communicated poorly. More often, they choose to ignore it, because of too many useless and overblown warnings.

Why aren't your family members sending money to the Nigerian prince? I bet your parents and brother are able to perform money transfer, so the tech isn't blocking it, but they don't do it.

Windows has very poor security model. It fails all security requirements I mentioned in my previous post. Needing elevated permissions to move a shortcut to a subfolder on their desktop just trains users that a lot of warning in Windows are useless.

A lot of dangerous and stupid activities are legal. Experts influence laws, but they don't have the power to prohibit laymen around them from doing legal things. Running software of your choice on your devices is legal last time I checked.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#700

Post by Quarrelsome » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 2:15 PM UTC

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #676

Quarrelsome wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A handful of tech-savvy users with rooted devices and open-source software will not make a difference to the giant crushing machine that is the system. Agreed, although I don't think that's entirely true, its just that post-smartphones we no longer have any political agency over a significant volume of the new traffic. Much of the new traffic represents that faction of people who initially mocked the internet as "n…

On Android they do enjoy the freedoms and fall for "side load this random app ignoring warnings" scam.

I'd imagine the volume we're discussing aren't even aware of options outside of the appstore.

A study was done a while back of average user competence and when given the task of arranging a meeting in a calendar app for a time where all participants could attend (given calendar conflicts) a meagre 5% of participants succeeded. The bar is tragically low for technical literacy and 95% of people (ballpark) fail to clear it. I'd imagine the first time these sorts of people are aware of side-loading is when they get scammed by being told to side-load some malware. So for these people they wouldn't even notice their digital rights being eroded or taken away completely, because they don't even understand how or why they'd be important.