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AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

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Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#691

Post by bloppe »

NonHyloMorph wrote: post #615
bloppe wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's arguing in favor of producing nothing . We're just saying there's something called comparative advantage and it's about maximizing efficiency. The US has no business manufacturing chips for strictly economic reasons. But when you consider national security concerns it looks different

Where is that idea coming from that you will be able to choose? Like there will be 2 versions of the same product on the shelves with one reading made in the usa and 5-20% more expensive? That's silly

Lol read the article

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#692

Post by motorest »

rob_c wrote: post #688
motorest wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. You haven't been paying attention. Even to this thread. Let me be very clear: The US proved to be a very unreliable and outright hostile partner. At this point, it is not clear whether the US is more hostile to the collective west than the likes of China. Therefore, let the US keep their backyard TSMC. It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be…

> It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. Tariffs or no the US wants back in on the construction/manufacturing industry. This is something that should be seen as a good thing. I just wish the EU was so visionary but we're worried about recycling plastics (when we don't use t…

> Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it.

The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#693

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

zuminator wrote: post #548
guywithahat wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically my only opposition to US chips is that we’re less liable to protect Taiwan if China invades

I think realistically the US is unfortunately never going to protect Taiwan. There's no way I see it getting into an unwinnable hot war with China over territory so close to the mainland. If China sent troops to secure the Taiwanese fabs, how could the US possibly dislodge them without destroying the thing they want to protect? The focus on the CHIPS Act by both recent administrations seems an admission that they don…

Taiwan is armed to the teeth. A full engagement would most likely destroy large sections of Taiwan and Southern China.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#694

Post by threetonesun »

alberth wrote: post #667

A lot of people misunderstand why companies outsource to Asia. It’s not just about cost—it’s actually more so about manufacturing expertise. Asia has a massive pool of highly skilled manufacturing talent, and that kind of deep expertise is something the U.S. is quickly forgetting. So my question is: with TSMC building a fab in the U.S., are Americans actually getting retrained in real manufacturing skills? Or are the…

There's a big difference in manufacturing between operators (the ones pushing the buttons), and plant engineers and designers. Assuming the process has been designed and built correctly, the button pushers can push buttons, and identify when not to push the buttons, and that's fine.

The US has plenty of manufacturing operations much more complicated than building CPUs, so of course we can do it. Manufacturing expertise in Asia (as I understand it) comes down more to macro-level processes, where different components might be built or raw ingredients sourced near each other, so further assembly can be done easier than any place in the United States.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#695

Post by vimy »

motorest wrote: post #689
vimy wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. The Russians won't stop in Ukraine. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. > Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat that Beijing can’t accept Russia losing its war against Ukraine as this could allow the United States to turn its full attention to China, an official…

> China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. The Trump administration is overtly cutting support from Ukraine while pressuring Ukraine to capitulate to Russia. At the same time it's also pushing for sanctions to be lifted and economic times with Russia to be normalized. Trump went to the extreme of pres…

The US is in fact increasing support right now. Trump lost his patience with Putin.

You also underestimate the Chinese support. The war would have been over in 2023 if it wasn't for China.

> The discovery of a Russian decoy drone made up entirely of Chinese parts is another indication of the growing wartime relationship between Moscow and Beijing. ... Beyond components, China appears to have provided Russia with at least some complete weapons systems. In May, we reported that Russia was using a new Chinese laser system to shoot down Ukrainian drones. https://www.twz.com/news-features/new-russian-drone-made-com...

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#696

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

ekianjo wrote: post #649
guywithahat wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically my only opposition to US chips is that we’re less liable to protect Taiwan if China invades

there is no way the US would go to war with China over Taiwan anyway.

Maybe... but it would be a great excuse to wipe China off the map.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#697

Post by isthatafact »

neon_me wrote: post #514
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

Cheap? 20% increase in cost of BoM equals at least ~100% increase for customer. Would you pay twice for AMD components? What would market do?

> 20% increase in cost of BoM equals at least ~100% increase for customer.

I am no expert in BoM and margins, but that seems like a wild claim to me. Could you explain your math?

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#698

Post by eli_gottlieb »

motorest wrote: post #683
maxdo wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. Europe is involved in a proxy war of China vs US. where EU associate member is fighting with china proxy, Russia. Other proxies are Iran with their satelites, without china neither Iran or Russia would not survive current wars they sponsor agaist west. as much as I hate current US admin, they push to increase NATO spending etc. how is that not "uniting" ?

> perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. You haven't been paying attention. Even to this thread. Let me be very clear: The US proved to be a very unreliable and outright hostile partner. At this point, it is not clear whether the US is more hostile to the collective west than the likes of China. Therefore, let the US keep their backyard TSMC. It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be…

The United States is about half of the "collective West", the EU being the other largest single body.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#699

Post by eli_gottlieb »

redleader55 wrote: post #646
azernik wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to reduce the risk is to diversify. Taiwan with a China risk and the US with a "US risk" is much safer than either alone.

In a world of US and China being at odds with each other and controlling a GPU factory each, AI for Europe, Japan, Australia, etc becomes a game of who can kiss ass better and hoping the master doesn't change the rules further. There should be more places that can produce enough energy and have AI leverage.

There should. I wish the Netherlands the best in further building out the industry in the EU!

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#700

Post by motorest »

azernik wrote: post #634
blitzar wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something happens to the US, we won't regret being able to produce these chips domestically. For the rest of the world, Taiwan with a "China Risk" looks like a safer bet than the USA.

The way to reduce the risk is to diversify. Taiwan with a China risk and the US with a "US risk" is much safer than either alone.

> The way to reduce the risk is to diversify. Taiwan with a China risk and the US with a "US risk" is much safer than either alone.

Not really. Taiwan with a China risk means China has pressure to not change the status quo.

US with a US risk means they have a vested interest to facilitate China's imperialistic agenda to try dethrone Taiwan as a competitor in the chip market.

That, coupled with the imbecile tariff war, underlines the unacceptable risk presented by the "US risk".

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