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Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

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Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#691

Post by Lienetic »

dang wrote: post #542
moralestapia wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait ... but this is true. Maybe I missed a source but I assumed it was somehow common knowledge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_cras...

> Wait ... but this is true. (It's been a while since this has come up, so maybe I'll write a longer reply, in case it's useful to you and/or others.) There are two responses, both important. The first is that your comment included things that the site guidelines ask commenters to avoid: internet tropes, snark, shallow dismissals (all of which are in "but hey, the guy wrote a couple of fun tweets") as well as outrigh…

great response and one I wish people also abided by in normal day-to-day discussion. thank you, dang, for the great environment you maintain on HN.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#692

Post by zelphirkalt »

alightsoul wrote: post #103
nothrabannosir wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t believe my eyes. The www is truly bankrupt. If anyone has a browser plugin which automatically redirects to llms.txt sign me up. Website too confusing for humans? Add more design, modals, newsletter pop ups, cookie banners, ads, … Website too confusing for LLMs? Add an accessible, clean, ad-free, concise, high entropy, plain text summary of your website. Make sure to hide it from the humans! PS: it should be…

The web started dying with mobile social media apps, in which hyperlinks are a poor UX choice. Then again with SEO banning outlinks. Now this. The web of interconnected pages that was the World Wide Web is dead. Not on social media? No one sees you. Run a website? more bots than humans. Unless you sell something on the side with the website it's not profitable. Hyperlinking to other websites is dead. Gen Alpha doesn'…

This. Only recently I realized, that in China for example many young people do not have a browser on their phone. Everything they do is via messenger "mini apps", which I can't imagine to be easier to create than a website. At every restaurant you get a QR code to scan, to download a so called mini app, which is a website in disguise. They run (un)social media apps like Tiktok or Xiaohongshu as their information input. I am not even sure they still use Baidu or something else as a search engine. Maybe that is another app, but they don't have a browser installed to go to a search engine's website.

I think it is an extremely debilitating situation and it results in people not even knowing what a website is. What it consists of, or how one could possibly make one oneself. They would have to go straight to app development and have it in big tech's stores, in order to make anything their peers could see or use.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#693

Post by iLoveOncall »

OJFord wrote: post #661

I'm not sure about the 1.0/2.0/3.0 classification, but it did lead me to think about LLMs as a programming paradigm: we've had imperative & declarative, procedural & functional languages, maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly. def __main__: You are a calculator. Given an input expression, you compute the result and print it to stdout, exiting 0. Should you be unable to do this, you…

> maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly

I can't believe someone would seriously write this and not realize how nonsensical it is.

"indeterministic programming", you seriously cannot come up with a bigger oxymoron.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#694

Post by manyaoman »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #548
bwfan123 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that there's not a single critical component anywhere that is built on LLMs. Remember that there are billion dollar usecases where being correct is not important. For example, shopping recommendations, advertizing, search results, image captioning, etc. All of these usecases have humans consuming the output, and LLMs can play a useful role as productivity boosters.

And none of those are crucial. His point is that the world is RELIANT on GenAI. This isn't true.

The full quote from 7:40 in the video: "I think it's kind of fascinating to me that when the state-of-the-art LLMs go down, it's actually kind of like an intelligence brownout in the world. It's kind of like when the voltage is unreliable in the grid, and the planet just gets dumber. The more reliance we have on these models, which already is really dramatic and I think will continue to grow."

I don't think his point was that LLMs are as crucial as the power grid, or even close. He's just saying that he finds the comparison interesting, for whatever reason. If you find it stupid instead, that's okay.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#695

Post by stabbles »

crsn wrote: post #675
OJFord wrote: post #661

I'm not sure about the 1.0/2.0/3.0 classification, but it did lead me to think about LLMs as a programming paradigm: we've had imperative & declarative, procedural & functional languages, maybe we'll come to view deterministic vs. probabilistic (LLMs) similarly. def __main__: You are a calculator. Given an input expression, you compute the result and print it to stdout, exiting 0. Should you be unable to do this, you…

This (sort of) is already a paradigm: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_programming

That's entirely orthogonal.

In probabilistic programming you (deterministically) define variables and formulas. It's just that the variables aren't instances of floats, but represent stochastic variables over floats.

This is similar to libraries for linear algebra where writing A * B * C does not immediately evaluate, but rather builds an expression tree that represent the computation; you need to do say `eval(A * B * C)` to obtain the actual value, and it gives the library room to compute it in the most efficient way.

It's more related to symbolic programming and lazy evaluation than (non-)determinism.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#696

Post by bayindirh »

abdullin wrote: post #600
bayindirh wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can create a more buggy code remixed from scraped bits from the internet which you don't understand, but somehow works rather than creating a higher quality, tighter code which takes the same amount of time to type? All the while offloading all the work to something else so your skills can atrophy at the same time? Sounds like progress to me.

Here is another way to look at the problem. There is a team of 5 people that are passionate about their indigenous language and want to preserve it from disappearing. They are using AI+Coding tools to: (1) Process and prepare a ton of various datasets for training custom text-to-speech, speech-to-text models and wake word models (because foundational models don't know this language), along with the pipelines and tool…

What you are describing is another application. My comment was squarely aimed at "vibe coding".

Protecting and preserving dying languages and culture is a great application for natural language processing.

For the record, I'm neither against LLMs, nor AI. What I'm primarily against is, how LLMs are trained and use the internet via their agents, without giving any citations, and stripping this information left and right and cry "fair use!" in the process.

Also, Go and Python are a nice languages (which I use), but there are other nice ways to build agents which also allows them to migrate, communicate and work in other cooperative or competitive ways.

So, AI is nice, LLMs are cool, but hyping something to earn money, deskill people, and pointing to something which is ethically questionable and technically inferior as the only silver bullet is not.

IOW; We should handle this thing way more carefully and stop ripping people's work in the name of "fair use" without consent. This is nuts.

Disclosure: I'm a HPC sysadmin sitting on top of a datacenter which runs some AI workloads, too.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#697

Post by iLoveOncall »

manyaoman wrote: post #694
iLoveOncall wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And none of those are crucial. His point is that the world is RELIANT on GenAI. This isn't true.

The full quote from 7:40 in the video: "I think it's kind of fascinating to me that when the state-of-the-art LLMs go down, it's actually kind of like an intelligence brownout in the world. It's kind of like when the voltage is unreliable in the grid, and the planet just gets dumber. The more reliance we have on these models, which already is really dramatic and I think will continue to grow." I don't think his point…

I'm just saying that the statement "when the state-of-the-art LLMs go down, it's actually kind of like an intelligence brownout in the world" is entirely false.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#698

Post by zelphirkalt »

jph00 wrote: post #164
dncornholio wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't just put things there any time you want - the RFC requires that they go through a registration process. Excuse me???

From the RFC: """ A well-known URI is a URI [RFC3986] whose path component begins with the characters "/.well-known/", and whose scheme is "HTTP", "HTTPS", or another scheme that has explicitly been specified to use well- known URIs. Applications that wish to mint new well-known URIs MUST register them, following the procedures in Section 5.1. """

Applications, not the websites, web services, or such. I read that as: "If you are making an application and you want it to introduce a new convention, then sign up here." (otherwise do whatever you want)

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#699

Post by manyaoman »

fnord77 wrote: post #47

Him claiming govts don't use AI or are behind the curve is not accurate. Modern military drones are very much AI agents

Governments obviously lead in military tech, but do you think they have access to better AI (in general) than consumers? Unless they do, I think it's fair to say that governments are behind the curve, since consumers tend to adopt things more quickly.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#700

Post by _kb »

dang wrote: post #29
_kb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, humans did in fact have forms of written language and communication prior to twitter.

Can you please make your substantive points without snark? We're trying for something a bit different here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Fair call out. The snark wasn’t intended or well placed.
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