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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

insideevs.com

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#691

Post by DanielHB »

oarsinsync wrote: post #649
DanielHB wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in similar systems and you are 100% right. 80% of the time was spent on communication protocols between the different boards and microcontrollers. QAing and solving issues from short-sighted dozens of unique custom protocols that worked in non-standard ways (every time a component needs to talk to another component a new protocol was invented). When you have dozens of communication lines required between dif…

> every time a component needs to talk to another component a new protocol was invented > We actually spent considerable amount of time just developing our own custom protocol Not only is this unintentionally hilarious, it’s a real life example of an xkcd comic ( https://xkcd.com/927/ ) that will never cease to be true. > eventually all our data communication would use a single unified protocol from micro-controller…

It is really hard, especially given you have to optimize for the lowest common denominator. For us it was a 512kb RAM microcontroller, we had to go to procurement to expand it to 2MB RAM and they were not happy about that.

On the other hand it was nice being able to just import a library into your code and JUST SEND A FREAKING MESSAGE without having to deal with thousands of lines of code that were last changed 3 years ago and nobody knows how it works. The scrutiny on the code quality of the common protocol was much higher and therefor much more pleasant to use and troubleshoot.

All the encoders and decoders of messages used the same code in all the parts of the stack (technically 2 implementations, one in Go and one in C)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#692

Post by HPsquared »

oarsinsync wrote: post #649
DanielHB wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in similar systems and you are 100% right. 80% of the time was spent on communication protocols between the different boards and microcontrollers. QAing and solving issues from short-sighted dozens of unique custom protocols that worked in non-standard ways (every time a component needs to talk to another component a new protocol was invented). When you have dozens of communication lines required between dif…

> every time a component needs to talk to another component a new protocol was invented > We actually spent considerable amount of time just developing our own custom protocol Not only is this unintentionally hilarious, it’s a real life example of an xkcd comic ( https://xkcd.com/927/ ) that will never cease to be true. > eventually all our data communication would use a single unified protocol from micro-controller…

Think of the nightmare 5 years down the road when someone else has to then incorporate this protocol under their own new protocol, with the older ones nested inside.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#693

Post by [deleted] »

Gareth321 wrote: post #612
DanielHB wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add one more thing to your point, if embedded devs work really hard and make the code work faster/better all reward you get is an _even_ more underpowered chip for the next version. Hardware procurement is cut-throat, sometimes they have mandates to reduce component costs and the procurement people WILL reach them. Often procurement > product in the power dynamics so no matter how bad the product gets those p…

Your account sounds accurate, but how fitting then that their cost cutting focus is losing them customers and potentially their entire company. VW is losing the EV war. Most manufacturers have already lost. Tesla and BYD are going to eat everyone's lunch. They either need to revolutionise their approach, or they're toast. I suspect they'll attempt to milk their existing supply chains into bankruptcy.

[deleted]

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#694

Post by dublinben »

wbl wrote: post #365
hedora wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s your common use case (with no stop on the destination side of the trip), then it’d limit your options to high range vehicles.

There's a stop, it's just in the middle of nowhere. 20 minute charge would be annoying but survivable assuming they had them in say Lone Pine. And yeah, 20 something mpg and 16 gallon tank multiplies out to a large range.

You're in luck! There's a dozen Superchargers available right in downtown Lone Pine: https://www.plugshare.com/location/60596

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#695

Post by k4rli »

vachina wrote: post #527
encrypted_bird wrote: post #268

My ideal car: - No Internet connection - No touchscreens - No LCD dashboard; I like dials. - 100% user-repairable; there should be no need to go to a dealer if one can easily fix a problem themselves or one wants to go to an independent mechanic (often cheaper!) - Buttons and (analog, not digital) dials for the media center - Media center with ONLY Bluetooth, CD player, and radio media center - Analog locks (not soft…

A Honda Civic 1999 fits you perfectly. No need to wait anymore.

No need to drive a shitbox. These points are easily covered by 90s/early 00s decent Italian/German cars.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#696

Post by taeric »

To throw a curve into this discussion, I'm not entirely clear that software companies have any clue how to enter this space. Cars are supported for far far longer than your average software system is expected to run, nowadays.

Google thinks they have a good support policy on phones that are approaching a decade in age. My truck is literally older than Google. And the mechanics down the street can easily get it back up and running from any trouble I typically see.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#697

Post by GenshoTikamura »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #667
GenshoTikamura wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am free to carry it or not

You are also free not to use a mode of transportation. You can, for example, buy an old car, register it on a historical number plate, and you’re good. There is no retrofit requirement. If you want a new car, suck it up.

I'm always amused at people who deem future and freedom of choice incompatible and effectively stating that the end game of all progress is absolute slavery and obedience.

Other than having some vested interest in denying people's right to choose between positive and negative aspects of progress, or having a Stockholm syndrome towards those who have such interest, I got no plausible explanations to this psychological phenomenon

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#698

Post by slowmotiony »

misja111 wrote: post #668

> Consumers have had it with clunky, slow automotive technology, and the modern car is so computerized that a seamless electronic interface is an absolute necessity. Say what? Give me a clunky manual interface with buttons and knobs any time over an electronic interface for which I have to look away from the road.

I wouldn't even mind replacing the analog meters with a computer screen if it worked well. Instead it's a laggy slideshow where the tachometer is just basically an arrow randomly appearing in different places a couple times per second.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#699

Post by slowmotiony »

felineflock wrote: post #410

About a year ago the Ford CEO (who is also Chris Farley's cousin) explained why legacy car manufacturers could not make good software: each of their cars have 150+ modules, each of them from several suppliers, each of them writing their own software. For every software change on each module, they have to go to a supplier to ask because of IP rights. That is why Ford is/was trying to build a new generation of modules…

Surely that's not why the interface is a laggy 10fps piece of shit and the touch latency is over 200ms. If my iPhone 3GS from 2009 can display the UI in 60fps without lagging like crazy then so can a $100k BMW that's straight from the factory. It doesn't need hundreds of extra modules.
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