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Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

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Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#691

Post by apwell23 »

jamesgasek wrote: post #361

"Preparing with AI" sounds like an issue here, and it's not. The issue is lying about your experiences, which people have done since the beginning of time. I "prepare with AI" by having it help give me hints when doing leetcode problems, which is very helpful. Interviewing is not a presentation, it's a conversation, and having a simulated other side can be helpful. This shouldn't be surreal at all. A candidate just w…

> Interviewing is not a presentation, it's a conversation, and having a simulated other side can be helpful.

i got a high paying job at meta once i started see it as 'presentation' and not a 'conversation' .

I play this stupid ass game to make money

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#692

Post by zelphirkalt »

lgas wrote: post #609
triyambakam wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad because I /like/ wearing a suit, even to the grocery store. I know I must look weird, but I feel more comfortable with and confident in myself.

You probably wear suits that fit and the confidence probably shows through. Not to stereotype, but I suspect a large number of developers have one or two suits they wear for job interviews, weddings and funerals, and they bought them long enough ago that they are too loose or too snug by now, and consequently feel uncomfortable when wearing them. At least this used to be me.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable in any suit, not because of size or fit, but because I must be wary not to make it dirty at all, otherwise cleaning is a pita. Say you want to go for lunch with coworkers and someone orders spaghetti/pasta. Great ... I rather wear something simple, so there is no problem, if something unfortunate happens.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#693

Post by zelphirkalt »

amrocha wrote: post #550
zelphirkalt wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing someone wearing a suit for a dev interview would make me think one of the following: (1) This person really really needs the job. Probably is in a bad negotiation position, due to this urgent need. (2) Are you here to impress people with looks, or with your skills? (3) They take looks way more serious than they should, maybe not focussing enough on the technical side of things. (4) Hopefully this is not an "En…

This feels like such a narrow view of the world. Not necessarily discriminatory, but on the path to get there. So what if a candidate wants to look good? How you feel about your looks affects your confidence, and you want to be confident in an interview. And like, if a candidate came in with a well groomed beard would you think “he probably spends too much time on his beard, he must be a bad programmer”? I bet you do…

> So what if a candidate wants to look good? How you feel about your looks affects your confidence, and you want to be confident in an interview.

But that is also a narrow view of the world, no? Who says a suit looks good? What if I think pajamas looks good? I am exaggerating of course, but I often think suits don't look particularly better or anything. It is just some random norm, that society has ascribed to that particular piece of clothing. I often find simple, one color only, no writing on it, clothing looking better.

> And like, if a candidate came in with a well groomed beard would you think “he probably spends too much time on his beard, he must be a bad programmer”? I bet you don’t.

I don't, but I do get a sense of them possibly being a bit vain. But more importantly, I think about why I don't wear such a beard. It is annoying when eating, and I don't want my beard in my food. So I will be a little bit baffled by their choice, but it is their choice anyway. I don't have to like it.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#694

Post by giancarlostoro »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #598
giancarlostoro wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say they don't remember, that's a red flag. Is it? I can think of projects I've worked on that have come up with friends that I have no idea how they worked anymore, just barely if at all. If the project was within the last 2 years, then yeah, but if its 8 year old plus code, I don't expect anyone to remember. However, they could have looked at it when they sent it over and refresh their minds.

OK, so ask them for something they've written in the past 2 years.

Everything I've written in the past 2 years is either proprietary or deeply private to me.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#695

Post by mystified5016 »

gspencley wrote: post #556
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The issue is lying about your experiences Side note, as far as a job requirements goes the bigger issue is asking for impossibly diverse experience and asking for things that can be easily learnt. This promotes lying because the liars are the ones that are rewarded with an initial interview. I was talking to a fresh graduate with some volunteer experience who was having difficulty getting a job, and all I could hesi…

> Side note, as far as a job requirements goes the bigger issue is asking for impossibly diverse experience and asking for things that can be easily learnt. Really? That's the bigger issue? Company wants to pay money to someone in exchange for services. They have unreasonable expectations. So that makes it OK for people to deceive them in order to have them believe that their unreasonable expectations have been met?…

I mean, we have companies out there posting "entry level" positions and demanding 10 years experience in a technology that's only existed for five.

All bets are off, man.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#696

Post by Kirby64 »

amrocha wrote: post #686
tomhow wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I understand and respect your decision to moderate my comment, and I’ll be more careful going forward. But I would like to point out that a rule that allows someone to openly state they discriminate during interviews but forbids a strong reaction to that statement might require some examination.

Respectfully, what I’m describing is not discrimination in the hiring sense. Discrimination is unfair treatment related to immutable characteristics about a person such as race, age, gender, etc.

You could just as easily argue that people “discriminate” against candidates by making them do leetcode, when leetcode is unrelated to performance at the job. Leetcode is a performance some people look at during interviews, just like how you socially meld in an interview is a performance people look at during interviews.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#697

Post by remram »

wyclif wrote: post #668
SR2Z wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even reneging on an offer in the US gets you blacklisted for like 5 years max. It's not personal, it's just business.

What do you mean by "reneging on an offer"? Do you mean simply turning down an offer? How is that a blacklistable offence?

It's seen as wasting their time.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#698

Post by nerdile »

wyclif wrote: post #668
SR2Z wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even reneging on an offer in the US gets you blacklisted for like 5 years max. It's not personal, it's just business.

What do you mean by "reneging on an offer"? Do you mean simply turning down an offer? How is that a blacklistable offence?

Reneging on an offer means revoking it after it has been accepted, and that's poor form.

Turning down an offer puts you into a small category of "people we would hire if we had the chance" and the recruiters or hiring managers will follow up with you for some set period of time just in case something changes on your side. They already have decided you would be a good fit, after all.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#699

Post by ralferoo »

rcxdude wrote: post #687
ralferoo wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone lies. To say everyone does is just lying to yourself in an attempt at rationalisation. Tell the truth. If you perform poorly in an interview, you now know where your weaknesses are. Work on them. Do a hobby project that lets you gain experience in that area. Use that as an example in your interview. Not only can you be truthful, you'll be more confident as you'll actually understand what you're talking a…

Half the issue is companies where you won't even get to an interview without a juiced-up CV, and the rest is a interviewing and hiring decision process that doesn't penalize liars. If people felt your advice was the best way to get ahead, then they'd follow it, but when they see people who are just good bullshitters rocket past them in the system, they're not gonna feel good about it. (How accurate this perception is…

This still doesn't justify lying to a potential employer. If your CV won't get you to an interview, then you don't have the skills they are looking for.

Aside from lying, you have other choices - spend some time working on personal projects to get the skills you need, obtain a recognised qualification in the skills you need, or try to find some way to obtain those skills in your current job. All of those will increase your real value to the potential employers, and gain you the opportunity to get the interview you want.

If a company catches you lying in an interview, they're absolutely right to blacklist you forever. How do you expect them to ever trust you to be telling the truth in the future if your very first contact with them is built on a lie?

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#700

Post by wyclif »

nerdile wrote: post #698
wyclif wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "reneging on an offer"? Do you mean simply turning down an offer? How is that a blacklistable offence?

Reneging on an offer means revoking it after it has been accepted, and that's poor form. Turning down an offer puts you into a small category of "people we would hire if we had the chance" and the recruiters or hiring managers will follow up with you for some set period of time just in case something changes on your side. They already have decided you would be a good fit, after all.

But here's what I don't understand about this: wouldn't that be the company revoking the offer, not the employee? If the company revokes the offer or has "exploding offers" or whatever, that's a corporate thing, not an employee issue.
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