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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#691

Post by Hojojo »

tstrimple wrote: post #520
Hojojo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they're being told to say/think/do every single day by Trump, Fox News, and the rest of conservative or alt right media, including people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan. They love being told what to think.

You can literally watch this stuff real time on the internet now. Trump does something awful. Conservatives online are confused and start asking questions. Talking points from Fox News come out and basically every single conservative online is parroting the party talking points handed down to them. No more confusion.

I always wonder what that must be like. There is no authority I trust and believe as much as they do Fox News or Trump. There's no simple answer, no easy solution. Trying to figure out what actually happened can take days, weeks, even years. And even then, it might remain unclear and there's often no certainty to be had. But for them, the answer, the cause, whatever, is there for them the very next evening. In bite-sized nuggets they can repeat without thinking.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#692

Post by cycomanic »

acidmath wrote: post #613
protocolture wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres no such thing as a free speech absolutist. Supposed free speech absolutists demand reversals of bans from platforms for people due to hate speech. Not 1 is demanding the same for spammers or fraudsters.

A libertarian will argue that fraud is an act that is not the same as free speech and hence is not covered by free speech. I don't agree with the libertarian viewpoints overall, however I will acknowledge they have a point about the distinction between those two things.

And what is spam? I can acknowledge fraud not being free speech (although it's a stretch as well), i.e. it's intended to harm (again one could argue about a lot of other speech as well), but how can they make the same argument for spam?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#693

Post by AngryData »

anal_reactor wrote: post #678
Conscat wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences" This is a actually a slogan in support of free speech. Of course people are allowed to say transphobic things online or downtown, but that would surely make some of their coworkers uncomfortable and that's pretty disqualifying from most employment. You're allowed to say things, but colleagues are allowed to respond in kind within the law.

Of course people are allowed to say MAGA-phobic things online or downtown, but that would surely make some of their coworkers uncomfortable and that's pretty disqualifying from most employment. You're allowed to say things, but colleagues are allowed to respond in kind within the law.

Are you trying to flip the table against them? because I agree with all of that. If certain employees are causing problems with other employees, the company has every right to fire them.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#694

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

refusingsalt wrote: post #498
wahnfrieden wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venezuela claims zero were members fwiw > Venezuela's Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello said on Friday that none of the hundreds of Venezuelans deported by the U.S. to a Salvadoran prison is a member of Venezuela's Tren de Aragua criminal gang, the reason Washington gave for expelling them. > "I believe with absolute responsibility that not a single one appears on the organizational chart of the now-extinct Tren de…

Venezuela, known for telling the truth

Trump and Republicans, known for telling the truth

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#695

Post by anal_reactor »

AngryData wrote: post #693
anal_reactor wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people are allowed to say MAGA-phobic things online or downtown, but that would surely make some of their coworkers uncomfortable and that's pretty disqualifying from most employment. You're allowed to say things, but colleagues are allowed to respond in kind within the law.

Are you trying to flip the table against them? because I agree with all of that. If certain employees are causing problems with other employees, the company has every right to fire them.

> If certain employees are causing problems with other employees, the company has every right to fire them.

This used to be the biggest argument against hiring women into all-male teams. Nowadays it's the biggest argument against hiring men into all-female teams.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#696

Post by mbs159 »

outside1234 wrote: post #279
esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

Not if we protest en mass and all stick together. The thing that will kill us is if we obey in advance and don’t do these things.

Trump has repeatedly suggested that he will use the military on the "enemy from within". Protests could end up looking like what we see in Belarus and Russia - masked "police" shows up and they beat them up and / or take them away.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#697

Post by bufferoverflow »

"President Trump has sued a number of U.S. news outlets, including 60 Minutes, CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times and other smaller media organizations for unflattering coverage."

Ok, you're straight up lying about what's happening.

The rest of the article has similar lies.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#698

Post by raxxorraxor »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #684
soraminazuki wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clear and impartial as to where those limits should be This is a big claim. The crux of the problem is that it's virtually impossible to set a clear and consistent line. That makes it ripe for abuse by those in power, as we are witnessing right now . I think it's hypocritical to fail to even acknowledge this fact.

Focus your energy on the clear abuses of power by the current regime, instead of hypotheticals and edge cases in the system you once had. The US had a great (not perfect!) system. Free speech with reasonable limits, set by laws and regulations. And helped by a certain amount trust in the system. When power hungry people, who started abusing the system with misinformation campaigns, ran into those laws and regulations…

That is not true, people championed others to be removed from all kinds of platforms.

I am not inclined to defend any stupid opinion, but especially on topics like the pandemic people were cheering on others getting banned. There is a political cost to this and that does extend to people having little ground to criticise the current US administration on these grounds.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#699

Post by raxxorraxor »

PieTime wrote: post #662
tetromino_ wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern ... Hi there. You are seeing one right now. Well, seeing the words of one. I am a free speech absolutist. What this administration is doing is abominable. I have always seen anti-Israeli campus posters as idiots, but Trump's crackdown on them is, imho, unconstitutional and immoral.

You’re free to support apartheid but I’ve never found slandering your opposition particularly useful. I don’t support any forms of violence, and framing is very important because it leads to peace activists being conflated with war mongering. Israel fascism is at the very heart of why free speech is being banned. https://youtu.be/9Z1NyTdhZ-U?si=9S4rOI-fQY0Yr0XD

There is less apartheid in Israel than in every other surrounding country with quite a large margin for that matter.

You use words like fascism while decrying "framing". This is ridiculous.

But no, I don't advocate you getting banned for a stupid opinion. Perhaps that can be the minimal consensus.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#700

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

YZF wrote: post #548
beej71 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is obviously not "just free speech". Sheesh. C'mon, man.

I am trying to make a point. Apparently very poorly. Either way, these Tesla protests are just idiotic. The vandalism is criminal. If this is the way Americans save their democracy and the rest of us rely on them then we're all doomed.

If you're relying on someone else to save your democracy then you are indeed doomed
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