Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#691

Post by andrekandre » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:51 AM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #622

firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

Every single socially progressive initiative every company engages in is purely performative. If those initiatives potentially hurt their bottom line or hurt them politically, they will be dropped so fast your head will spin. Years ago, tech companies would promote such moves to improve their image, play intot heir role as being "outsiders" or "disruptors" and to attract staff, who tended to skew towards socially pro…

  > But the sad truth is, every other big tech company is on the same path.

its why relying on companies is no substitute for real social movements; they have their own incentives and will turn on a dime if its prudent

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#692

Post by antics » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:56 AM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #489

antics wrote: post #311

I am Wasq'u (a tribe in the PNW), I am connected to my tribe, and I am one of a handful of remaining speakers of the language. I am really tired of being caught in the maw of people fighting about my identity, what I am owed, and to some extent what place my identity has in society. To the pro-DEI crowd: I have some hard truths for you. Actual change requires commitment and focus over an extremely long period of time…

> To the anti-DEI crowd: focus on what you can build together The problem with DEI-as-implemented is that it often not only contains overt discrimination against a group (based on a protected class), but also prohibits any criticism of this. When someone is being discriminated against, not subtly or silently but explicitly, intentionally and overtly, and then punished for daring to complain about it, that leads to a…

I totally get it. A lot of our wounds are still open, too. I'm not here to tell people how to feel, I'm just advocating for deciding what is actually important to you and focusing all your attention on it until it is resolved. I happen to think that citizens of the US are worth more to each other as sometimes-conflicting allies than as complete adversaries, but that is for everyone to decide on their own.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#693

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:01 AM UTC

baq wrote: post #55

Are they rolling back Chinese and Indian managers only hiring Chinese and Indian folks, too?

[deleted]

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#694

Post by drak0n1c » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:02 AM UTC

masto wrote: post #451

I'm fortunate enough to have worked for Google during a period of time when Big Tech started to gain at least a modicum of self-awareness of its toxic culture and history of excesses and indiscretions. I arrived on the scene slightly late to witness the worst of it, but the stories were actively circulating, and the structure was very much still present. SRE teams had bars next to their desks, and office parties ende…

James Damore spoke up then. What did Google then do to him?

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#695

Post by eapressoandcats » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:09 AM UTC

wyager wrote: post #470

specialp wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The start of the funnel is also the most racist and class discriminatory. Almost every school in the USA takes pupils from districts where the property owners pay the taxes for the schools. Rich areas get much more resources and support. Poor students get put into less funded schools and suffer from not having mentorship or peers to look up to. I live on Long Island and we have a majority white population. Despite th…

America spends more money per student, in almost any school district, than any European country. The problem is not "resources and support". We've tried "resources and support" for 50 years, so the (a priori entirely fantastical) notion that just throwing more money at the problem would make it go away has been thoroughly disproven.

I don’t think that’s true. It looks like the US has pretty similar spending to European countries at least as a percentage of GDP: https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/report...

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#696

Post by spaceguillotine » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:10 AM UTC

anon373839 wrote: post #508

seadan83 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your points. Though with respect lasting change, where is your impression coming from that the gains are in the last 10 to 15 years? Or even that is a widespread belief? According to reporting at the guardian [1], FBs DEI program increased black and brown employees from 8% to 12%. Seems abysmal. My perspective, US society is still fighting for gains that _started_ 160 years ago. Still painstaking…

> My perspective, US society is still fighting for gains that _started_ 160 years ago. Still painstakingly slow. I feel this comment won’t win me many friends, but since no one has mentioned it: one of the striking features of the DEI/social justice movement was its rejection of MLK-style racial equality ideals. An entirely new language was invented to describe the new philosophy. And in some circles, if you appealed…

MLK was a communist who was killed for his views by the US Government.

He was not the harmony flowers and rainbows he was white washed into.

Rights are never given, they have to be taken by force.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#697

Post by loeg » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:15 AM UTC

pkkkzip wrote: post #283

j7ake wrote: post #231

Why does the skin color or gender matter if in the end they pick candidates that all went to the same top schools or have previously worked at the same top companies? Diversity in training, education and work history vastly outweighs diversity in superficial physical features.

Top schools like ivy league in America exclusively discriminate against Asians and there was a lawsuit but its not being enforced. This is a different issue that precedes DEI.

Harvard Law Asian admissions are up 30% 2023 to 2024. Maybe a sign the situation is improving.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#698

Post by eweise » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:18 AM UTC

firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

[flagged]

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#699

Post by ianhawes » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:19 AM UTC

drak0n1c wrote: post #684

cocacola1 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costco's always interested me as a company. Still the only place where I pay to be able to shop. It's a personal point of pride whenever I go there and spend less than $100.

Interestingly, Costco’s core business model and marketing is built on membership gatekeeping practices which have disproportionate exclusionary effects along class and race lines.

They make up for it with the $1.50 hotdog and drink combo.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#700

Post by eapressoandcats » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:19 AM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #670

kenferry wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mm. It’s certainly good to work at the other end of the funnel (thank you!) but it also won’t help address pattern matching that people do in hiring. It’s an incredibly natural thing for people to hire people like themselves, or people they meet their image of what a top notch software dev looks like. It requires active effort to counteract this. One can definitely argue about the efficacy of DEI approaches, but I di…

If the goal is to prevent people from being biased, why not anonymize candidate packets? Zoom interviews can also be anonymized easily. If it's the case that equally strong, or stronger, candidates are being passed over anonymization should solve this. Rather than working to anonymize candidates, every DEI policy I've witnessed sought to incentivize increasing the representation of specific demographics. Bonuses for…

Anonymization is probably an under tried idea. Various orchestras switched to blind auditions and significantly increased the number of women they hired.