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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#691

Post by lolinder »

kortilla wrote: post #638
andsoitis wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

The MacBook Air is not a luxury device. That meme is out of date

I can't buy a MacBook Air for less than $999, and that's for a model with 8GB RAM, an 8-core CPU and 256GB SSD. The equivalent (based on raw specs) in the PC world runs for $300 to $500.

How is something that is twice as expensive as the competition not a luxury device?

EDIT: Because there's repeated confusion in the replies: I am not saying that a MacBook Air is not objectively a better device. I'm saying it is better by metrics that fall strictly into the "luxury" category.

Better build quality, system-on-a-chip, better OS, better battery life, aluminum case—all of these are luxury characteristics that someone who is looking for a functional device that meets their needs at a decent price won't have as dealbreakers.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#692

Post by benced »

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #645
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

I wonder if BYOE (bring your own electricity) also plays a part in their long term vision? Data centres are expensive in terms of hardware, staffing and energy. Externalising this cost to customers saves money, but also helps to paint a green(washing) narrative. It's more meaningful to more people to say they've cut their energy consumption by x than to say they have a better server obselesence strategy, for example.

Apple has committed that all of its products will be carbon-neutral - including emissions from charging during their lifetime - by 2030. The Apple Watch is already there.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/09/apple-unveils-its-fir...

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#693

Post by pjot »

deergomoo wrote: post #678
asow92 wrote: post #332

Why are we running these high end CPUs on tablets without the ability to run pro apps like Xcode? Until I can run Xcode on an iPad (not Swift Playgrounds), it's a pass for me. Hear me out: I don't want to bring both an iPad and Macbook on trips, but I need Xcode. Because of this, I have to pick the Macbook every time. I want an iPad, but the iPad doesn't want me.

I've been saying this for years, I would love to get a desktop Mac and use an iPad for the occasional bit of portable development I do away from a desk, like when I want to noodle on an idea in front of the TV. I'm very happy with my MacBook, but I don't like that the mega expensive machine I want to keep for 5+ years needs to be tied to a limited-life lithium battery that's costly and labour intensive to replace, ju…

I’ve had success using cloud dev environments with an iPad - the key for me was also using a mouse and keyboard - after things weren’t _that_ different

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#694

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

The only reason I'm buying a new iPad Pro is the screen and because the battery on my 2021 iPad Pro is slowly dying.

I could care less that the M4 chip is in the iPad Pro ... all I use it for is browsing the web, watching movies, playing chess, and posting on Hacker News (and some other social media as well).

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#695

Post by ethbr1 »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #499
joelthelion wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>n case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) I'm curious: is anyone seriously using apple hardware to train Ai models at the moment? Obviously not the big players, but I imagine it might be a viable option for Ai engineers in smaller, less ambitious companies.

Not really (I work on AI/ML Infrastructure at a well known tech company and talk regularly w/ our peer companies). That said, inference on apple products is a different story. There's definitely interest in inference on the edge. So far though, nearly everyone is still opting for inference in the cloud for two reasons: 1. There's a lot of extra work involved in getting ML/AI models ready for mobile inference. And thi…

Power for power, any thoughts on what mobile inference looks like vs doing it in the cloud?

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#696

Post by jimbokun »

andsoitis wrote: post #539
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

For all their competitors it’s not true right now.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#697

Post by gigatexal »

LtdJorge wrote: post #664
gigatexal wrote: post #657

Anyone know if the ram multiples of the M4 are better than the M3? Example: could a base model M4 sport more than 24GB of ram?

Not for the iPad (8/16 GB)

Right I was thinking more laptops and desktops but yeah 8/16 makes a ton more sense for the ipad only.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#698

Post by Pesthuf »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

Honestly, if they manage this, they have my money. But to get actually powerful models running, they need to supply the devices with enough RAM - and that's definitely not what Apple like to do.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#699

Post by jonplackett »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

I think it will be a winning strategy. Lag is a real killer for LLMs.

I think they'll have another LLM on a server (maybe a deal for openai/gemini) that the one on the device can use like ChatGPT uses plugins.

But on device Apple have a gigantic advantage. Rabbit and Humane are good ideas humbled by shitty hardware that runs out of battery, gets too hot, has to connect to the internet to do literally anything.

Apple is in a brilliant position to solve all those things.

I hope they announce something good at WWDC

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#700

Post by threeseed »

jonplackett wrote: post #699
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

I think it will be a winning strategy. Lag is a real killer for LLMs. I think they'll have another LLM on a server (maybe a deal for openai/gemini) that the one on the device can use like ChatGPT uses plugins. But on device Apple have a gigantic advantage. Rabbit and Humane are good ideas humbled by shitty hardware that runs out of battery, gets too hot, has to connect to the internet to do literally anything. Apple…

There really isn't enough emphasis on the downsides of server side platforms.

So many of these are only deployed in US and so if you're say in country Australia not only do you have all your traffic going to the US but it will be via slow and intermittent cellular connections.

It makes using services like LLMs unusably slow.

I miss the 90s and having applications and data reside locally.

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