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Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

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Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#691

Post by bjconlan »

zozbot234 wrote: post #685
lumost wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if the problem with rust is that we have not yet had a major set of projects which drive solutions to common dev problems. Go had google driving adoption, which in turn drove open source efforts. The language had to remain grounded to not interfere with the doing of building back-end services. Rust had mozilla/servo which was ultimately unsuccessful. While there are more than a few companies uinf r…

Servo is an ongoing project, it has not "failed" or been unsuccessful in any sense.

I think the original poster is perhaps speaking to previous articles (ie https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39269949) which from the outside looking in made me feel that perhaps this infact was the case (at least for a period).

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#692

Post by obdev »

neonsunset wrote: post #642
alimnes wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rust game development feels like a solution looking for a problem to fix. The same can be said for ordinary CRUD backends. Java, C#, Go and Typescript (Node, Deno or Bun) are all memory safe with good type systems and more than good enough performance. Evangelism around Rust is unfortunately still a thing. A good example is the latest hype in the community because some Google Manager said at a Rust conference that…

This is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially given that Rust is an immediate upgrade with no downsides when moving away from C or C++. It is easy to see with people never wanting to go back, which also involves getting companies and products to adopt it as you would otherwise be forced by the market to work with inferior tools. As a counterexample, .NET suffers a lot from the lack of evangelism - big chunk of comm…

I mean, if we are allowed to lie in order to promote Rust, why don't we just smear all the C/C++ code bases in the world as security hazard needed to be sorted out ASAP?

Unless we already do...

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#693

Post by vintermann »

tormeh wrote: post #507
FridgeSeal wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main reason is that you can't ship that Rust code on PS5 in a sensible manner. Really - why’s that?

Sony requires that you use their tooling, which you can only get under NDA.

Really a shame that there's that sort of thing going on in 2024 too.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#694

Post by spiderice »

pjmlp wrote: post #687
internetter wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a thing?

Yep, Stadia might have failed, but GeForce Now and XBox Cloud Gaming have enough customers to keep them going.

That’s complete different. They are rendering the client and streaming it to users. That doesn’t make the client side code “server side” any more than you streaming Fortnite on Twitch does.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#695

Post by grumpyprole »

Exuma wrote: post #581
grumpyprole wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go is an engineer’s language. No, Ada/Spark is an example of a good engineers language. Go is a mediocre effort at best. Rob Pikes defence is that it was designed for junior Googlers who "aren't capable of understanding a brilliant language". Yes that's a real quote.

What’s a brilliant language in this context

You'd have to ask Rob Pike. My own example of a brilliant language is Haskell, but it's not without problems.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#696

Post by Animats »

vaylian wrote: post #673
Animats wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot going on. Someone is doing a new third party viewer, Crystal Frost, in Unity. Linden Lab has a mobile viewer in alpha test. Rendering is PBR now for new objects. There are mirrors! Content upload is moving to glTF, to be compatible with everybody else. Voice is switching from Vivox to WebRTC. Game controller support is in test. New users get better avatars. The dev staff is larger. None of this is yet i…

> There's a lot going on. I'd like to use the opportunity to ask: What happened during the covid pandemic? I haven't heard/read anything about second life during the pandemic even though this was probably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity? Are there any news sources that you can recommend to keep an eye on second life, because it doesn't seem that it gets that much press coverage?

> What happened during the COVID pandemic?

Usage went up about 10%, and then leveled off. Logged in right now, at 0020 PDT: 32084 users. Varies between 30,000 and 50,000 around the clock.

> News sources

* https://modemworld.me/

* https://ryanschultz.com/

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#697

Post by otikik »

jacobgorm wrote: post #414
hot_gril wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's all about the ecosystem and very little about the language features

C++ classes with inheritance are a pretty good match for objects in a 3D (or 2D) world, which is why C++ became popular with 3D game programmers.

This is not at all my experience.

What I have experienced is that C++ classes with inheritance are good at modeling objects in a game at first, when you are just starting and the hierarchy is super simple. Afterwards, it isn’t a good match. To can try to hack around this in several ways, but the short version of it is that if your game isn’t very simple you are better off starting with an Entity Component System setup. It will be more cumbersome to use than the language-provided features at first, but the lines cross very quickly.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#698

Post by kbenson »

Repulsion9513 wrote: post #617
kbenson wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really comment on the quality of the game or experience or how buggy it feels because I've never played it, but I will say that counting fixed crash situations is a somewhat arbitrary and useless metric. If each of those crashes affected and was reported by a single person or even nobody because no regular person could really encounter it is a vastly different situation than if each of those crashes was exper…

> If each of those crashes affected and was reported by a single person or even nobody Then do you really think they'd be spending time fixing it? (Actually, you know what, they probably would.)

That's why I had a paragraph mentioning different reasons things might be mentioned. I don't think it's uncommon to find a bug that could cause a crash while working something else, confirm it does crash, and then fix it. If the culture is to mention those things in patch notes even if you're not sure it actually ever caused a user problem, then it will be listed.

That doesn't mean all, or even any, of the listed crashes were like that, but it does illustrate that it's hard to know what they actually mean without additional info.

(for what it's worth, I'm a long time Tarkov player, so I'm definitely familiar wroth buggy games and apparent development problems with rushing, so this is more a devils advocate position on my part)

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#699

Post by bcrosby95 »

Repulsion9513 wrote: post #618
CJefferson wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Rust, but a crashing released game is better than a half-finished "perfect" game, or a game where you couldn't iterate quickly, and ended up with a perfectly tuned, unfun game.

> a crashing released game is better than a half-finished "perfect" game For who? I, and I'm pretty sure most other gamers, would rather a fully-finished "perfect" game that took twice as long.

Hell no. Lots of these games take 5-7 years to make. You want to turn that into 10-14? I can live with the rare crash bugs.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#700

Post by Animats »

collinvandyck76 wrote: post #561
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current popularity of the async stuff has its roots in the classic "c10k" problem. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem ) A perception among some that threads are expensive, especially when "wasted" on blocking I/O. And that using them in that domain "won't scale." Putting aside that not all of use are building web applications (heterodox here in HN, I know)... Most people in the real world with real appl…

>now you're having to fire up a tokio runtime I've been developing in (mostly async) Rust professionally for a about a year -- I haven't written much sync rust other than my learning projects and a raytracer I'm working on, but what are the kind of common dependencies that pose this problem? Like wanting to use reqwest or things like that?

> Like wanting to use reqwest or things like that?

Yes. Reqwest cranks up Tokio. The amount of stuff it does for a single web request is rather large. It cranks up a thread pool, does the request, and if there's nothing else going on, shuts down the thread pool after a while. That whole reqwest/hyper/tokio stack is intended to "scale", and it's massive overkill for something that's not making large numbers of requests.

There's "ureq", if you don't want Tokio client side. Does blocking HTTP/HTTPS requests. Will set up a reusable connection pool if you want one.

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