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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#691

Post by FirmwareBurner »

blehn wrote: post #653
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no, you see the restrictions are there for YOUR protection. "Won't someone please think of the children?"

You say that like someone who didn't have to periodically clean/erase/throw away their parents' malware-infested Windows machine (which was already bogged down by anti-virus software) in the early '00s. Not that I agree with every Apple policy, but it's hard to argue that their customers aren't generally more "protected" than they have been on other platforms. The fact that my mom can safely use an iPhone for 4-5 yea…

>You say that like someone who didn't have to periodically clean/erase/throw away their parents' malware-infested Windows machine (which was already bogged down by anti-virus software) in the early '00s.

Yes I have, you don't know me. And that's not an argument. Apple's MacOS is open unlike iOS and that's not full of malware or users getting scammed daily then what makes you think they'll suddenly start getting scammed on iOS. Explain that please.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#692

Post by Brian_K_White »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #470
actionfromafar wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could just as well say they stopped being desperate. They cobbled together what they needed from where they could.

There are a lot of big companies that continue to produce and use open standards. In general it benefits them, because it's "commoditize your complement." Google sells advertising so they want web standards so that more things use the web and therefore Google ads. Intel sells server CPUs so they contribute to Linux to keep customers from being locked into proprietary Unix on proprietary RISC architectures. Doing the…

Oh sure. How compatible are IBM machines?

They now run linux only because they simply have to. And so they do, in the least compatible way possible.

Almost everyone tries to do this as much as possible, not just Apple.

Initially everyone could make their own stuff 100% unique, hardware and software. Like the early HP machines, a total universe of their own. It's only over time that customers gradually insist on a few standards here and there after they get burned bad enough, and so some things get standard, but even then only incompletely and begrudgingly and always trying to find some way claw back or obsolete get around some other way.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#693

Post by pavlov »

zengid wrote: post #663

This is some spicy shit from Apple: > “In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them,” Schiller reminds the game maker in the letter dated February 23, 2024. “You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple’s rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Mali…

Somehow I doubt that the EU competition authority will appreciate Apple’s logic that criticizing their implementation of pro-competition regulation is valid grounds for preventing a competitor from accessing said implementation.

It’s like if your parents forced you to give a slice of your birthday cake to your little brother, and in spite you intentionally cut him a slice with no frosting. When he complains, you go: “No cake for you then!”

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#694

Post by greedo »

drfuzzyness wrote: post #660
numbsafari wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me when Xbox allows side loading.

It's somewhat locked down as you need to apply with Microsoft for a Developer account, but you can technically sideload UWP apps onto your Xbox hardware by entering Developer Mode. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/devk... It's not convenient and you need to reboot your console to go back to running commercial apps, but it is present. At least it's a one-time payment to get the developer account…

And what percentage does Microsoft charge for games on the Xbox?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#695

Post by overgard »

hizanberg wrote: post #18

If I had a Customer that spent years relentlessly complaining about my Company, I know I wouldn't want to have them as a Customer. It does present an interesting question on whether a Company can be forced to have a bad actor as a Customer, I guess this will be decided in the lawsuits to come.

Epic is only a customer because Apple's policies forces them to be.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#696

Post by abletonlive »

mdhb wrote: post #559
cheeze wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers aren't forced to write any apps. They write apps where the revenue makes sense. And the revenue makes the most sense on ios for a large share of developers. 95%+ of developers don't care if Apple doesn't allow Epic on their store. That's just reality. If my boss tells me "we're launching an ios app" I'm not going to tell him about how I disagree with Apples principles and refuse to build it.

No but a lot will start building PWAs wherever they can instead because they no longer need to write an entire second copy of their app that only runs in one place and can’t share code and they don’t have to just pay 30% of their revenue to someone for no good reason. Trust me, Apple pissing off developers is absolutely going to have serious implications for them.

Trust me, you're overweighting how much your feelings matter in this and most developers simply do not give a shit.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#697

Post by pompino »

swman wrote: post #358
layer8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

Then they should just not publish for iOS lol. Don’t like it? Don’t publish to it. As a consumer I want and like the tight restrictions apple puts on the App Store. It’s not like users can’t purchase stuff without paying the 30% premium added by developers to offset the apple tax. Just go to the website and buy there. And save the 30%. My parents who are older use iPhone. They don’t have to wade through trash like an…

Ah yes, the classic "Think of the innocent children and grandmas" . Sorry, that isn't an argument anymore. It never was convincing before and isn't now either.

>Don’t like it? Don’t publish to it.

Yeah, why protest at all? Just leave the country. Why fight corruption? Just go somewhere else where there is less of it. Really, why complain at all?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#698

Post by dns_snek »

Terretta wrote: post #658
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. This is funny to point out since they did it specifically to sue over it (you pretty much can't other wise). So Apple has their draconian 30% cut or there's literally no other way to have an application run on iOS policy, you can't challenge it without breaking it so you can sue, and because you broke it to sue you are now permanently barred from every maki…

> So Apple has their draconian 30% cut This notion that 30% is 'draconian' is curious since Steam -- on supposedly open PC -- costs devs more, and even 30% is wrong since it's not 30% below a certain revenue level or in the second year onwards, again in line or less than stores on other platforms.

The PC isn't "supposedly" open, but open. Steam do collect a 30% fee but crucially, they have to work for that fee by competing on core service quality and quality of life features (like cloud saves).

Apple is perfectly entitled to ask for a 30% fee, as long as they allow for competition on equal footing (for clarity, this means they don't try to collect exorbitant rent from their competitors first). Let the free market sort it out.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#699

Post by archagon »

nozzlegear wrote: post #642
wkat4242 wrote: post #609

Ummm lol. So now sideloading is allowed (with lots of costs associated mind you) and if someone wants to use it Apple will just kick them off the platform? :') So first malicious compliance with all the inflated costs and then they don't even allow people to use it. I really hope the EU will crack down on this BS and force Apple to allow real sideloading. But anyway I've written Apple out of my life a long time ago.

They’ve already approved others for third-party App Store implementations: https://mastodon.social/@rileytestut/112039139930789909

Are any of them game stores?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#700

Post by overgard »

dwaite wrote: post #688
overgard wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to see Apple being in the right here. While I'm not so naive as to think one company is "good" and the other "bad", I do think that as developers Epic is fighting for our best interests. Apple's app store monopoly serves only Apple.

I do not. Tim Sweeney testified that had Apple offered a special deal just for Epic, they would have taken it.

Maybe I should rephrase that, they're indirectly fighting for our best interest. Obviously their motives are selfish, but their wins are generally good for the rest of us in this context.
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