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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

macrumors.com

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#691

Post by tekkk »

rickdeckard wrote: post #637
nevir wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a little story / timeline from 2009-2010 (from my perspective as a dev on Kindle for iOS): * we submit the Kindle app ...including an in-app bookstore... to Apple for initial app review (Note: multiple ebook readers with in-app bookstores are already on the app store at this point) * several weeks pass with no response * Apple announces in-app purchasing (to be released several months later) * Apple rejects ou…

The missing part is that Apple's maneuver was to effectively destroy the wholesale model in favor of an agency-model, and orchestrate all major publishers to charge more for ebooks just so they can earn their 30% commission from it. Apple actively engaged as facilitator to help publishers raise prices on the whole market, for a 30% cut. The result was that books previously available for $9.99 were suddenly sold for $…

I just looked and the last Song of Ice and Fire audiobook is 41€ in Apple Books. That is hilariously insane. I could perhaps pay that for all of them but for 1 — the others are basically the same price. That's 200€ for the set.

There are weirdly other audiobook versions that cost only 29€ so I wonder what's the story here.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#692

Post by toyg »

inemesitaffia wrote: post #689
toyg wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not matter how much money a company makes or if you personally think they're charging too much for a service. They're allowed to. Ah yes, loan sharks are perfectly legitimate businessmen too, then. > The fact that this is the second highest upvoted comment is a rather sad datapoint I personally find sadder that there are people who just rationalize away the utter lack of morality in modern capitalism. "Why…

Why do companies charge extra to businesses for the same product? Should they? See the SSO tax

Companies should be free to compete on various variables, which include price for their services. But there is no competition for the Apple AppStore on Apple devices, it's a captive market. At that point, it's not competition but exploitation; and exploitation surely is a Bad Thing.

We used to be taught that one of the Bad Elements of feudal life was that the local lord could impose arbitrary taxes to use a road or a bridge, with no recourse for people and tradesmen. Now we are at the same point in the digital world.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#693

Post by Mutjake »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #369
sircastor wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think of the App Store as a bazaar that Apple runs on its property, and it’s a 15-30% charge to setup a tent and sell your wares. Others think of it as Apple’s general store where they carry your app as a product, and you pay 15-30% for a place on the shelf. The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. What an…

> The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. I'm not making the argument from a legal perspective, but from a reality perspective, I think that's a very poor analogy to the way operating systems (and "platforms" generally) work. The very nature of operating systems is that they have much more control than a simple store…

I like to think this via car analogy: you have similar ecosystem with car infotainment system platforms, but there the cost of switching is often minimum tenfold. Game consoles are an analogous platform to phones with similar pricepoint in switching costs. Of course phones are much more present in our daily lives for the most part of the population. But I suppose the similar burden would easily hit those platforms if legislation would be imposed, and it would come with both upsides and downsides depending on one's viewpoint.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#694

Post by ing33k »

mattdesl wrote: post #656

Can’t a developer just add a message to their website to circumvent this link tax? “Open this again in any regular browser to receive a 27% discount.” I don’t see anything that prohibits this: https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl... Apple cannot (or, per antitrust law, should not) tell a developer how to design and sell their merchandise in their web based storefronts .

Yeah, but will it matter ? It's a mobile native world. That's why distribution matters.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#695

Post by ing33k »

kmeisthax wrote: post #312
MobileVet wrote: post #56

I am curious if any businesses operating with the ‘pay Apple their cut’ on outside sales actually do? Does Apple have the manpower to chase every developer for that fee? Do they really expect to collect it or is it more of a threat? Any HN people with first hand knowledge of a business paying that fee?

Given the zeal Apple has for their 30%, they absolutely will be demanding fully open books and tracking for that outbound link. There's no firsthand knowledge because this is the first time Apple's actually had to chase companies for the fee. In fact, their whole argument against Epic was that banning steering made it easier on both parties to attribute revenue.

Privacy can take backseat ?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#696

Post by dsign »

slimsag wrote: post #568
nevir wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a little story / timeline from 2009-2010 (from my perspective as a dev on Kindle for iOS): * we submit the Kindle app ...including an in-app bookstore... to Apple for initial app review (Note: multiple ebook readers with in-app bookstores are already on the app store at this point) * several weeks pass with no response * Apple announces in-app purchasing (to be released several months later) * Apple rejects ou…

This may be the funniest and saddest thing I've read all year. So $MEGACORP abuses their absolute monopolistic position in the market to underhandedly negotiate with book publishers and force their hand into working the way $MEGACORP wants: in order to gain access to $MEGACORPs completely dominated (but technically not a monopoly*) audience who wishes to buy books in a convenient way online, book publishers must bow…

This must be f*cking really hard with our culture. I for once can say that I have been reading less because Amazon's recommendation algorithm keeps throwing at me books with trendy covers that make me cringe. And same with the blurbs. Sometimes, if I manage to go over my cringe reaction to those two things, the book under it is actually good. Therefore, I get a feeling authors and publishers feel they need to imitate the crowd and make the book look childish from the outside, in order to mollify The Algorithm.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#697

Post by ants_everywhere »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

Apple is a lifestyle brand and some people act pretty threatened when that brand is criticized.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#698

Post by namdnay »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

> make a few people who already have everything even richer.

"a few people" being everyone with a retirement plan, 401k or any equivalent around the world, i.e. the vast majority of people in developed countries

if anything, taking from smaller companies to give to megacorps is a net benefit for "the common man", since the former will generally belong to founders/VCs/private equity in which they have no stake, and the latter are owned by everyone with exposure to the MSCI World :)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#699

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

dsign wrote: post #696
slimsag wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be the funniest and saddest thing I've read all year. So $MEGACORP abuses their absolute monopolistic position in the market to underhandedly negotiate with book publishers and force their hand into working the way $MEGACORP wants: in order to gain access to $MEGACORPs completely dominated (but technically not a monopoly*) audience who wishes to buy books in a convenient way online, book publishers must bow…

This must be f*cking really hard with our culture. I for once can say that I have been reading less because Amazon's recommendation algorithm keeps throwing at me books with trendy covers that make me cringe. And same with the blurbs. Sometimes, if I manage to go over my cringe reaction to those two things, the book under it is actually good. Therefore, I get a feeling authors and publishers feel they need to imitate…

Have you tried storygraph?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#700

Post by fallingknife »

slimsag wrote: post #568
nevir wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a little story / timeline from 2009-2010 (from my perspective as a dev on Kindle for iOS): * we submit the Kindle app ...including an in-app bookstore... to Apple for initial app review (Note: multiple ebook readers with in-app bookstores are already on the app store at this point) * several weeks pass with no response * Apple announces in-app purchasing (to be released several months later) * Apple rejects ou…

This may be the funniest and saddest thing I've read all year. So $MEGACORP abuses their absolute monopolistic position in the market to underhandedly negotiate with book publishers and force their hand into working the way $MEGACORP wants: in order to gain access to $MEGACORPs completely dominated (but technically not a monopoly*) audience who wishes to buy books in a convenient way online, book publishers must bow…

It's not really comparable because Amazon never did anything to try to stop anyone from buying books through any other channel. The platform they do own, AWS, unlike the iphone, is perfectly open to competitors to Amazon's retail business.
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