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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#691

Post by timeagain »

marcell wrote: post #572
goalonetwo wrote: post #465

Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel. It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity. all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people liv…

It seems like Hamas values one Palestinian less than one Israeli. This is based on prisoner exchanges. Hamas gives up one Israeli prisoner for more than one Palestinian. Most recently it was 2:1, but historically it was 100:1 or more.

This is silly right? It isn’t like Hamas demanded this ratio, or that they forced Israel to accept. Should Hamas refuse out of principle if Israel gave them prisoners for free?

On the contrary it seems more like a power play on Israel’s part. “Take our prisoners we will just defeat them again!”

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#692

Post by zeruch »

A1kmm wrote: post #521
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

"I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed." This is a fairly nail-on-head distillation, and that it exists exacerbates any attempts at substantive discourse that follows.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#693

Post by NomDePlum »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I'd assume the anti-Israel views could be caused by the actions of Israel.

Is that not a reasonable interpretation? Normally a country killing many thousands of innocent children, women and men, in an act of bloody revenge is not thought well of.

That's not to condone Hamas's acts on October 7th, but to point out that indiscriminate violence is usually not an answer to anything.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#694

Post by nitwit005 »

underdeserver wrote: post #567
nitwit005 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One answer is these media efforts. Isreal works hard to draw attention to its conflicts, and to try to turn that attention into support. I'd note the Ukranians worked very hard to draw attention to their war as well, and they were quite successful at that.

No. Israel would like nothing more than to not be the center of attention every time it's attacked and tries to defend itself.

As mentioned in the article, they are paying for social media ad campaigns. That is not the behavior of people wanting to avoid attention.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#695

Post by Misha_B »

dh2022 wrote: post #635
spookie wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a very clear, narrow lens on the issue. Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza. I say this because any other way is a can of worms. How did Hamas come into power? What are its goals? What have they promised to do to accomplish those objectives? Their goals are of malicious intent, and they have demonstrated that they're willing to do anything to accomplish the…

Re: "Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza" - I do not think you can. A lot of Palestinians are radicalized. What do you think a father who lost his kids in an airstrike will do next? Or a brother who lost his sister / brother? Do you think these people will care about rule of law, or turn the other cheek, etc...? Re: "any other way is a can of worms". I agree with this…

We learnt a lot since 9/11 about how radicalization works. It's not happening mainly through personal trauma, but through indoctrination, usually through schools and universities.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#696

Post by dotancohen »

holmesworcester wrote: post #19
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily video platforms. The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel, because the scale of what Israel is doing to Gaza is so much greater than what Gaza has done to Israel. Another way of saying it is, it makes sense that someone who spends hours on apps optimized for empathy-based addicti…

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#697

Post by tmnvix »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261
master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country)

When I hear that chant I don't assume that it means 'destroying Jewish country' but rather that the Palestinian nation (i.e. people) should be free between the Jordan and Mediterranean. There is no contradiction in the hypothetical chant "Palestine and Israel shall be free from the river to the sea" if we are talking about nations and not states.

The problem is that neither Israelis nor Palestinians can be free in a state that practices apartheid against them (be that an Israeli or Palestinian state). So you could interpret "Palestine shall be free from the river to the sea" as a call to end apartheid in Israel. Which brings us to the crux of this issue - Israel's determination to remain an ethno-religious apartheid state. The founding of a state where only a certain type of person can be a full citizen is the original sin here in my opinion.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#698

Post by [deleted] »

istultus wrote: post #423

What an absolute mind-fuck. I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat. We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now c…

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#699

Post by aprilthird2021 »

fxd123 wrote: post #452
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is there a reason why you created an account specifically for this comment thread?

I live in the bay. I'm an engineer. I've read HN for years. This topic hit home for me enough to get me to comment whereas normally I was a lurker

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#700

Post by dmix »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #676
hereme888 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If someone's supporters lie enough can you genocide them? If not then I don't see how this is relevant.

This is a discussion about propaganda, not justifying the scale of a military response.

As an aside throwing the word "genocide" around lightly is also one of the cheapest forms of discourse. Constantly escalating language doesn't make for useful debate. It's just an overused tactic to make your opinions sound more important.

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