Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#691

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #689

dragonwriter wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn't, but if you can't understand language enough to recognize that there is no point in further discussion.

You mentioned there is a subset, but the subsets described is still a way to identify the group of people. You can try and twist language all you want, but there is no avoiding the fact that a corporation is just people. If people somehow magically disappeared, the corporate entity would disappear at the exact same time – it's the same thing.

> You mentioned there is a subset, but the subsets described is still a way to identify the group of people.

A subset of the actions or interests, not a subset of the group of people (the latter would, indeed, be just a different group of people, but isn't what I said.)

> If people somehow magically disappeared, the corporate entity would disappear at the exact same time – it's the same thing.

No, its not the same thing.

If North America disappeared, all the piles of dog feces in North America would also disappear, but the piles of dog feces are not the same thing as North America.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#692

Post by MikeRichardson » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #564

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a made-up issue. My biggest pet peeve is when people have an issue that doesn't affect them so they need to declare it as "fake". Just because you don't feel the problem doesn't mean "it's a made up issue". The following are simply facts: 1. In the US, among iPhone users, iMessage is by far the dominant messaging service. 2. Among certain socioeconomic groups in the US, iPhone is by far the dominant mobile pho…

Feel free to replace made-up with self-inflicted, that might be more correct, fair enough. I do experience the human aspect, and have 4-5 different chat programs installed, which is not ideal, but it is just simply can’t be expected that everyone uses the same stuff. I just remember to use Telegram with friends X, Y and Signal with W.

We can certainly expect the 4-5 different programs to work with each other though. It's even happened before. For a brief period of time, AIM, MSN, and Yahoo all had some kind of interoperability with each other.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#693

Post by MikeRichardson » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #615

izacus wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolutely hilarious to see the willingness for folks on this platform to advocate the opening up of something a company built by fiat. Yes, it's called creating standards and fostering free market competition. This has happened REPETEDLY and time and time again. Pretty much every standard, cable and tech you're using that works on multiple manufacturers was "something a company built by fiat". If I'm facetious as…

Standards come out of standards bodies. There's nothing other than a law or a lawsuit or the threat thereof that would compel to open iMessage as a standard. It's a competitive value-add to adopting the platform. Free markets are I create something awesome and profit from it not am then forced to allow you and everyone else to build off of my hard work unless I choose to or am forced to. If Apple was approached by go…

> The free-market works when someone else builds something -- in this case a better phone experience -- that would cause folks to move to that and abandon iMessage

The free market fails when the cost for anyone else to enter the market is completely out of reach to anyone else.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#694

Post by Obscurity4340 » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:26 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #525

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just laugh because Signal is way better than all of this and—wouldn't ya know—the default is "blue bubbles". They are the ultimate blue bubble to me because its almost all yours and gives you way more control than anything else like iMessage and its all audited and open for examination (theoretically)

Signal can be better in all ways except the one that matters most. Not a single person I communicate with uses it. So it's useless.

You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse.

Its a boundary and we all need to get real better at understanding and being respectful thereto.

Only issue is if you want them more than they you, there's a bit of a dance to navigate . If the like Musk, send them to all his endorsementz. At the end of the day, it will have to be a negotiation at play and its more of a toughlove ultimatun purely for the area of which messenging platforms to engage with.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#695

Post by lencastre » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:57 PM UTC

Can’t they fix the 0-day no-open message exploits first?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#696

Post by lxgr » Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 12:08 AM UTC

rickdeckard wrote: post #682

giantrobot wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running a messaging gateway means Google gets all that sweet metadata at the very least and message content in the many cases where E2EE isn't enabled. That's a lot of data to build advertising derivatives all linked to a specific identity.

In best case for Google they can operate the RCS-server for Android devices. Google already owns the Messaging CLIENT for SMS/MMS/RCS on nearly all Android devices as well as the underlying OS itself. There is little new information to gain for them, no matter how Android users communicate with Apple users right now. There is however a lot to gain for them if a unified rich communication standard is established in th…

> There is little new information to gain for them, no matter how Android users communicate with Apple users right now.

The client and the OS don't really give them any metadata or message content. Operating the server infrastructure would.

SMS doesn't touch their servers (except possibly for people that use Google's Messages app and/or backup service); RCS does.

> There is however a lot to gain for them if a unified rich communication standard is established in the market, because apart from finally being able to replace SMS, it would drive platform-agnostic innovation in this area.

Absolutely, but that open standard will hopefully not be RCS. It's way too coupled to the 3GPP/ITU model of doing things.

I trust the organizations in charge of the web and Internet (who brought us email and XMPP/Jabber!) a bit more than those who still somewhat yearn for the days in which OTT players did not exist and telecommunication was charged by the mile and minute or message.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#697

Post by olliej » Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 2:03 AM UTC

rezonant wrote: post #528

olliej wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait so google doesn’t support e2ee for more than two devices in a chat?

Yes, it does, as long as everyone is using RCS via Google Messages.

Ok, it's still absurd to me that RCS or Google Messages weren't E2EE from day 1 given even iMessage was doing E2EE group chats almost 5 years before the RCS "universal" profile was released so its not like they didn't have time. Similarly even when google's message platform did add encryption the fact that it wasn't always on is unconscionable.

How does google messages (gMessage?) indicate which messages aren't secure?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#698

Post by ShadowBanThis01 » Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 4:11 AM UTC

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #679

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Pearl Jam basically proved that TicketMaster is a monopoly. TicketMaster is a textbook example of a consumer-harming monopoly, and yet they have gone unprosecuted for decades. No excuse.

Ha ha ha, some TicketMaster/LiveNation shill actually down-modded that. Pathetic.

Then came back for more. Sad.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#699

Post by Obscurity4340 » Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 5:40 AM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #128

Tagbert wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both iMessage and Webkit have to accept requests from unknown sources that can contain a wide variety of content type. some other content types, like EPS are themselves programming languages that could contain infiltration scripts. That is why Apple has dropped EPS support. Similar situation can happen for other kinds of image and video content. I don't know much about how iMessage communication is implemented but it…

I can picture teens or younger acting snobby about phone choice. Not really clear why, if it’s a financial thing, as it’s been years since iPhones were priced at a premium relative to competitors. But well, they’re kids. However, I’ve experienced critical attitudes from adults well into their 40s when I had an Android phone. Personally I prefer iOS, but to judge someone based on their phone choice seems fairly ridicu…

Phone/platform arguments are the worst, I do my best to avoid or extinguish them in whatever politik means is available. People can be such egotistical jerks about this foolishness.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#700

Post by rickdeckard » Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 7:50 AM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #696

rickdeckard wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In best case for Google they can operate the RCS-server for Android devices. Google already owns the Messaging CLIENT for SMS/MMS/RCS on nearly all Android devices as well as the underlying OS itself. There is little new information to gain for them, no matter how Android users communicate with Apple users right now. There is however a lot to gain for them if a unified rich communication standard is established in th…

> There is little new information to gain for them, no matter how Android users communicate with Apple users right now. The client and the OS don't really give them any metadata or message content. Operating the server infrastructure would. SMS doesn't touch their servers (except possibly for people that use Google's Messages app and/or backup service); RCS does. > There is however a lot to gain for them if a unified…

> The client and the OS don't really give them any metadata or message content.

The client includes a spam protection service which allows them to send message data to a server for scanning. Every other messaging app uses the Notification service to send the message and its relevant metadata to the OS. So as far as conspiracy goes, Google has all the means to get the data already today.