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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#691

Post by kspacewalk2 »

ch4s3 wrote: post #425
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they want their children to learn to drive?

Probably so they don't have to personally drive them everywhere. My mother has a coworker who has a 22 year old daughter who is essentially unemployable because she can't drive and therefore can't get to work and can't afford to move to a place where walking/transit is an option. The family has a spare car.

The problem in your example is quite clearly not whether she currently knows how to drive. This is a skill that is trivial to acquire (given that there's a spare car, and if it's North America, driving schools are plentiful and a barely detectable pulse is sufficient qualifications for a driver's licence).

The actual problem is two-fold: parents who enable this dependency by offering rides and don't charge rent; and the daughter who evidently has no personal need whatsoever for a driver's licence. If she doesn't want a job, why would she care that she can't drive to one?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#692

Post by shortcake27 »

prophesi wrote: post #594
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

Not to mention that if you do decide on an old and affordable car, it's offset by the price of its constant repairs and the anxiety that it could break down again at any moment.

You just need to do your research first. I recently bought a 2001 Corolla with 200k miles. I felt confident because it has a timing chain, no belt to snap. Manual transmission which is bulletproof, just needs a new clutch every now and then. And it’s a a common car so it’s easy and cheap to find spare parts.

This era is probably the sweet spot for reliable cars. Post 2010 cars have gotten extremely complicated both mechanically and electronically. Manual / slushbox auto transmissions are difficult to find, replaced with CVTs which are extremely unreliable and for some reason unrepairable (usually needing a full replacement), or DCTs which are slightly better but nowhere near as reliable as a manual or slushbox. And significantly more expensive to fix.

In 15-20 years the used car market isn’t going to look like it does today. Modern ICEs aren’t going to last. However, I’m looking forward to used electric cars as they age. The mechanics are much simpler which only leaves the electronics, and more people are going to become competent with diagnostics and repair in step with the popularity of electric cars.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#693

Post by taylodl »

stronglikedan wrote: post #600
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

I just went car shopping, and those claimed prices are definitely inflated. People that cannot "afford a car" typically just cannot afford the car they think they deserve. It's a tale as old as time.

I'm currently car shopping and these prices are in line with what I'm seeing. In my particular area, again I cited averages for the nation, it would seem you could drop each price down by $5K. As I have responded to many other comments here that's really not going to make a huge difference in your monthly outlay - especially when you consider I didn't include the costs for things like parking, vehicle registration, and vehicle emissions testing.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#694

Post by wkat4242 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #360
wkat4242 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. I hate the stress of driving. The busy traffic, all the mistakes you can make and be fined for, the hurry of some people. Expensive everything. I live in a city now with amazing public transport and I don't miss my car at all.

It's also utterly wasted time. You can't do anything with it and you can't even zone out because you're actively driving. While walking or on a bus you can read or devote your whole attention to an audio book. You're not home, but it's still your time.

Totally agree! It feels like I got part of my life back <3

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#695

Post by HardlyCurious »

toshredsyousay wrote: post #690
HardlyCurious wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived very close to my work for a period and tried bike commuting. I don't disagree with the benefits of doing it, but it's not very realistic for most people in most places. I was having a hard time NOT getting sweaty on my ride into work because humidity is the highest in the morning. And when I wasnt sweating I was getting rained on, or my hands were freezing, or I got chain grease on my pants.

If you got an electric bike, that could help with the sweat. The breeze with the extra speed and the reduction in effort really reduce the amount of sweat dramatically. Or just bring a change of clothes and maybe a towel if that is tolerable. For the rain, a bike poncho works pretty well, especially if you pair it with rubber boots (maybe have a change of shoes ready). For the cold, gloves or bar mitts work pretty we…

Yes, there are solutions or work arounds for these issues. It just makes commuting on a bike inconvenient for many people.

Electric bikes are great, but other than price, it starts to blur between having an electric motorcycle. Especially after you need to don appropriate gear for the commute to stay dry / comfortable. And the motorcycle would have greater range and more use cases.

And at the end of the day, while riding a bike to work is great and I would encourage everyone to try it if they can, do you really think it works without a backup plan? Even people I know who have taking bike commuting pretty seriously didn't do it literally every single day.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#696

Post by sagarm »

nradov wrote: post #668
sagarm wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> traffic jams do suck Or put more succinctly, you agree cars suck. Some of us just go one car further.

I don't agree at all. Cars are awesome! Reliable, fast personal mobility is a huge step forward in quality of life.

traffic is what we call it when cars get together to have a good time

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#697

Post by lp0_on_fire »

lesuorac wrote: post #677
taylodl wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycling is also significantly cheaper than is owning a car. The average used car price in the US buys a top-of-the-line, brand-new motorcycle. Used (and even new) motorcycles can be had for significantly cheaper. The insurance and fuel costs are significantly less as well. A motorcyclist will have half the cost or even much less than that of a car owner. I know people always respond that motorcycling is more dan…

> Many of the remaining accidents are caused by high-speed riding. In my own experience, I've had normal encounters that were I driving a car would have resulted in an accident, but by riding a motorcycle I have the ability to easily maneuver to avoid the accident. To make sure this isn't downplayed. Having riden a motorcycle for years, many car drivers _do_ _not_ _see_ _you_. That car that just pulled out in front o…

Many people think that "because I'm on a motorcycle" or "because I'm on a bike" or "because I'm a pedestrian" they're magically granted some special protection from morons on the road and the laws of physics. Sure, "the law" says you might have the "right of way" but does that really matter when some idiot in a 2 ton truck runs you over because he was looking at his phone?

I was a rider until I got in an accident (in the car) last year. Someone not paying attention blew a stop sign at nearly 50 mph and t-boned me. My car was totaled but luckily I walked away with only a bruised ego. Had I been on the motorcycle I'd be a smear on the road today. There are too many idiots and reckless people on the road to make it worth it to me any more.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#698

Post by shortcake27 »

donkeyd wrote: post #349
davidmurdoch wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, cars are boring now .

The ford Fiesta (ST) and Focus (ST/RS) are discontinued in favor of more MPV/SUV type cars. It's such a shame because they're great cars.

What’s with this? Is it a safety thing? I despise these small SUVs, heavier, higher center of gravity, and worse aero so they use more fuel and drive like garbage. When I rent a small car I have to explicitly state give me the car I ordered and NOT “upgrade” me because it feels more like a downgrade.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#699

Post by frosted-flakes »

nradov wrote: post #413
vidarh wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a risk that is so low that if I were to invest time in reducing the top risks in my life, it'd be far outside the top 10. Put another way: The odds of me finding myself somewhere where I can't easily find someone to drive me somewhere is near zero. Note that this is how I evaluate my risk. I absolutely accept this will be an issue for people who live in places where getting transport might be a problem. If that'…

Public transit strikes and system breakdowns happen occasionally, nothing to do with the end of civilization. Not being able to drive really limits your options, especially if you want to travel to remote locations for business or leisure. Knowing how it drive is just a basic life skill for any adult. It's something everyone should know how to do like being able to cook a meal or rewire an electrical outlet or shoot…

> drive or cook a meal or rewire an electrical outlet or shoot a gun or splint a broken limb

None of those except cooking are in any way "basic life skills". Least of all shooting a gun.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#700

Post by fwungy »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #667
fwungy wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the car is purchased for a business you can write off the depreciation.

I do not see how that is applicable in a discussion about young people at large being able to afford cars for personal use.

It is relative to the context of the comment of why people might buy new vehicles when it does not appear to make economic sense.
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