Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

xmodtwo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 1001 posts

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#691

Post by farmaway »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #688
farmaway wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The President of the United States of America: https://nypost.com/2022/10/24/biden-calls-curbs-on-treatment... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-transgender-youth-state... I have family and friends in K-12 education. If you question LGBTQIAP+ or fail to affirm a kids' gender self-identification, you are out of a job. Wesley Yang has covered this topic extensively, and is a good one to follow on Twitter: https://we…

Small question: In the name of preventing children from transitioning, there are laws in place in some states to investigate supportive parents for child abuse and separate children from their parents should their parents support their child's transition. How does this correspond with parental autonomy? There are other laws in place in some states that force that a teacher is not allowed to mention gender identity at…

You're strawmanning Florida as an example of the status quo, when it's one of a very few states pushing back against the tide.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#692

Post by [deleted] »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #331
throwaway894345 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the entire establishment is seeking to ally itself with your movement/culture/etc then that’s a strong indicator that your movement isn’t counter-culture or otherwise subversive. They don’t have to become True Believers IMHO. And FWIW, lots of big companies have DEI departments that preach this stuff internally and market it externally (my wife is a marketing consultant with these big companies and they eat this s…

When Coca-Cola embraced the flower children with its ads in the late 1960s / early 1970s, did that mean that the US counterculture of that time had become "the culture"? Of course it did not. The flower children, the back-to-the-landers, the bikers, the free love communers all remained a tiny slice of the population (and a shrinking one by that time). What the late 60s/early 70s US counterculture had going for it was…

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#693

Post by Thorentis »

The feeling of not having a counter culture is probably exacerbated by the fact that "progressive" and "countercultural" have become somewhat conflated terms or concepts in the last decade. And almost all major corporations involve themselves in whatever the latest progressive social movement is. When every major corporation is doing something "countercultural" then it isn't really countercultural at all. It's mainstream.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#694

Post by everdrive »

Eupraxias wrote: post #624
Taywee wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan is obnoxiously and brainlessly countercultural to the point of contrarianism, though. It used to be a fun place where people didn't care so much about social conventions and focused mostly on having a good time and poking fun at each other, but it's degraded into just hating anything and everything that they can attribute to anybody they don't like. I've seen tons of cases where they were on-board for something…

Any counter-culture requires there to be a culture. We have no counter-culture, because there is no longer a strong, central culture. 4chan is one of many siloed cultures, not a counter-culture.

I don’t wholly agree with you, but this is an interesting point. What does it mean to be “counterculture” in our increasingly fragmented culture? Perhaps the current debate here is so frenzied because each debater is speaking from their own island of culture, and some “other” mainstream always seems larger than their own?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#695

Post by PuppyTailWags »

farmaway wrote: post #691
PuppyTailWags wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small question: In the name of preventing children from transitioning, there are laws in place in some states to investigate supportive parents for child abuse and separate children from their parents should their parents support their child's transition. How does this correspond with parental autonomy? There are other laws in place in some states that force that a teacher is not allowed to mention gender identity at…

You're strawmanning Florida as an example of the status quo, when it's one of a very few states pushing back against the tide.

You're dodging my questions.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#696

Post by Dig1t »

teachrdan wrote: post #659
Dig1t wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk I never said anything about Jews, but calling people a Nazi is a great way to shut down conversation. I love Jewish people, I have many friends who are Jewish, I have no problem with their representation anywhere. In fact, I have seriously considered joining the Jewish faith. I am just saying if you go down the path of comparing religious representation in government, you are literally not allowed to have an hone…

> If you want to have an honest conversation about religious representation in government you will very quickly be labeled an anti-semite. You literally said that you can't talk about how Jews (allegedly) have too much power in government. This is a classic anti-semitic trope. To say so and then respond with > idk I never said anything about Jews, but calling people a Nazi is a great way to shut down conversation. is…

Alright well I was genuinely trying to engage in good faith discussion here, but you seem angry.

I really don't believe that we can have any kind of productive outcome here. As I said, I don't hate anyone, I don't even have a problem with any of the representation that I'm talking about.

I was simply pointing out that the fact that I see these symbols plastered everywhere, including at Target, means that this is no longer an underground counterculture kind of thing. It's very mainstream.

If you want to insist on projecting your ideas that the world is filled with secret Nazis do it with someone else.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#697

Post by farmaway »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #695
farmaway wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're strawmanning Florida as an example of the status quo, when it's one of a very few states pushing back against the tide.

You're dodging my questions.

Your very comment dodged every major point of my original post, which you continue to evade. I won't be sidetracked into debating the actions of some Governor I don't control in a state I've never visited. It is classic "whatabouting," not relevant to the topic nor the main point.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#698

Post by MockObject »

lasfter wrote: post #644
goodSteveramos wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard a republican say something positive about white people. Can you give me an example? For the amount of dog whistling the GOP has done over the years the complete dearth of any explicit pandering to white Americans is actually shocking and deserving of a proper explanation. Great explanation. Very proper. Much explanation. Thanks for the example /s Arguments you cant argue against are not a “dishones…

You are being dishonest because examples of the GOP pandering to white voters are well-documented and easily accessible. Either you never looked, in which case arguing at all is dishonest since you don't know what you're talking about, or you looked and ignored the mountain of evidence denying your view. The "script" part is likely about you shifting the goalposts. Why doesn't dog-whistling count as explicit panderin…

> Why doesn't dog-whistling count as explicit pandering to white Americans?

Because why do they have to dog whistle about it? Why do they have to resort to subtlety at all?

It's forbidden from public discourse to such an extent that can only be found between the lines, hidden in vague allusions, or more likely, asserted as baseless accusations slandering conservative politicians, while the GOP explicitly tries everything it can to promote their non-white figures.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#699

Post by revolvingocelot »

Taywee wrote: post #629
skyyler wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and more like unhinged, hateful, contrarian paranoid schizophrenia. You and I did not use the same 4chan in 2007... I learned new slurs there, ways to insult people that I could have never imagined. I read posts from a schizoid that claimed to have evidence that the government was influencing his life through the ratings of popular animes on My Anime List. I saw child porn get posted regularly. I saw extremely hatef…

I was a teenager, so it's possible to a degree, but the things you're listing in my memory were there in significantly smaller degrees, and have since completely taken over the site. Back in the day, there was a hell of a lot more "Yellow van", "epic for the win" and the like. Now it's 'america is a far left cultureless “nation” and its tranny enabling (((mutts))) will never be white no matter how much they inbreed w…

I wholeheartedly agree with this analysis, and submit that those users condescendingly suggesting that it's we who've changed and not 4chan may never have actually experienced the kind of 4chan to which the parent refers. Things were, are, and presumably always will be done for "the lulz", but what those things are, at whom those things are targeted, and why those targets are chosen have changed dramatically. A bright, prescriptive mockery [0] has given way to a sullen, threatening white-supremacism dressed up like the historiography of the fall of Rome, complete with a would-be-kingmaker priesthood who half-ironically wield meme magic to (successfully!) sway real-world events [1]. And this transition is important, because much of the internet's "culture" is created on 4chan, only making its way into the wider world once it's been sufficiently, uh, digested [2] by successively more "normie" intermediaries.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20221128150706/https://www.mondo...

[1] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/memes-4chan-...

[2] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/meme-life-cycle-charts NB the presence of _digg_ in the lifecycle; 4chan has been accepted as the spawning-pool of memery for a long time

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#700

Post by LAC-Tech »

mahogany wrote: post #652
LAC-Tech wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U... Whites are nowhere close to being the wealthiest group in the US.

Median income is a very different measurement from "wealth, corporate power and political power" within a group, especially one so large.

Ok, find a metric that supports the assertion.
Post reply on HN