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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#691

Post by pie_flavor »

godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

No, it has for the most part been "because servers paid based on their performance will perform better". The effects are easily observable in nearly any restaurant in the country - the servers are better than their European counterparts, whether in a fancy establishment or a tiny sandwich shop. 'Because they're paid less than minimum wage' is a straw man - the law that allowed that to happen was created in a pre-existing tipping culture that justified it on the merits.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#692

Post by Archipelagia »

lynx23 wrote: post #655
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

I am blind. Would I be able to use your iPad setup to order something in your shop, or is the "lets make everything fancy" setup maybe exclusionary?

I think both of this comment is needlessly hostile.

Like, starting the conversation with an accusatory comment of "hey, btw, did you think of this very super rare situation, or are you the evil exclusionary guy?" is kind of an asshole thing to do. Most people with sight don't encounter blindness often, so making someone feel attacked for not thinking about is just a way to generate hostility.

Having said that, I actually appreciate the content (if not the form) of this comment – it's pretty easy to accidentally block people from using your software, and accessibility reminders are an important thing. Though in this case human solution (have the waiter come and help) is probably better than software one.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#693

Post by lynx23 »

jacktribe wrote: post #685
lynx23 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am blind. Would I be able to use your iPad setup to order something in your shop, or is the "lets make everything fancy" setup maybe exclusionary?

We have 2 recurring customers that are vision impaired (there’s an apartment building for people with disabilities nearby). We help place their orders, as we would with any customer that needs help using the iPads for other reasons. Vision impaired people require the same help reading the menu at any other coffee shop, so it’s not any different. In fact it might make it easier on them because they don’t feel like the…

iOS has VoiceOver built-in. If you coded your app correctly, the customer should be able to activate VoiceOver with a tripple-click on the home-button (or the quivalent on a device without home button).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#694

Post by atchoo »

divan wrote: post #665
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Thank you for sharing your story. Continuing the geek vibe, I believe the best starting point to make sense of inner workings of incentive systems and rewards is SDT - Self-Determination Theory. It's 70+ yr old theory of motivation in psychology that originated in studies of how external rewards (i.e. tips or bonuses) crowd out intrinsic motivation. In other words, if we want employees to act friendly to customers -…

It sounds insane that you need "rewards and punishments" for one human to be nice to another. Friendliness should be a natural by product of happy people in a good workplace.

I'd suggest a different tack, analyse what in the system has led to one person to be unfriendly to another, and solve it without assuming the buck stops with the individual as some type of perfectly free agent in a skinner box.

Proper pay, proper healthcare, leaders that lead by demonstration and treat colleagues with respect and a business that does not lead to angry customers by being scummy... are just table stakes for example.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#695

Post by jacktribe »

ranieuwe wrote: post #641
jacktribe wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While profit sharing may work as an incentive for shift managers or store managers, in the absence of tips most baristas will expect some other immediate bonus pay, preferably based on a measurable metric that doesn't depend on factors beyond the barista's control, such as cost of goods sold, supply chain constraints, rent hikes, recessions, etc. If you occasionally ask the customer in-app "how was your service today…

Wouldn’t you be measuring the interaction with the ordering device? How can I rate the experience if I didn’t interact with the Barista yet? One of my general problems with tipping is that I have to tip before someone makes the drink. Then end up with burned coffee I tipped for. This feels the same.

The feedback option would be shown on the customer’s phone the next time they open the app, in regards to their previous visit.

If the customer ordered via the POS, it will be shown on the next visit, if they sign in with their phone number (which is used to save your order history for easy reordering).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#696

Post by lynx23 »

adenozine wrote: post #667
lynx23 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am blind. Would I be able to use your iPad setup to order something in your shop, or is the "lets make everything fancy" setup maybe exclusionary?

[flagged]

Thanks for making your attitude towards people with disabilities clear upfront. Comparing a car dealership with a coffee shop... I am lost on words.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#697

Post by yreg »

jacktribe wrote: post #685
lynx23 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am blind. Would I be able to use your iPad setup to order something in your shop, or is the "lets make everything fancy" setup maybe exclusionary?

We have 2 recurring customers that are vision impaired (there’s an apartment building for people with disabilities nearby). We help place their orders, as we would with any customer that needs help using the iPads for other reasons. Vision impaired people require the same help reading the menu at any other coffee shop, so it’s not any different. In fact it might make it easier on them because they don’t feel like the…

iPadOS comes with VoiceOver and you should be able to enable it as an accessibility shortcut (Settings -> Accessibility) that works in kiosk mode as well.

Depending how your views are laid out the app might need some polish to improve navigation, but overall it should work from the get go.

Concerns I see are that (1) only Apple users will know how to trigger it and (2) the vision impaired customer might leave VoiceOver on, which will confuse the next customer who uses the kiosk.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#698

Post by ztrww »

FrontierPsych wrote: post #683
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

I don't like the proliferation of tipping everywhere. But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed. Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So…

> to go up substantially to cover what that person made with tips

more realistically, unless they are capable of finding another job that will pay as much they’ll just end up earning less without tips.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#699

Post by ACS_Solver »

nicbou wrote: post #592
Analemma_ wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember: this is HN, where the bubble effect is strong. On Hacker News, everybody "knows" that Google Search is useless these days and that Amazon results are all counterfeit junk, even though in the real world I have never heard anyone bring this up and these services are still incredibly popular. It's the same thing with cash: I don't think I've seen anyone pay with cash in years. Even the old people at the grocer…

Remember that this is also an American bubble at times. In Germany, cash is still king. You can't go long without 10€ in your wallet. Tangential: I'm surprised that no one complains about these things. Google Search has become unbearable and Amazon is obviously bad these days. There's no way people aren't getting annoyed by the tech they use every day, yet you're right, no complaints.

Germany's certainly a contrast. As a counterpoint from another end of the scale, I'm in Sweden and it's so cashless that the US seemed cash-heavy to me on a visit a year ago. I saw people pay cash in a restaurant and I even saw a public transport machine that accepts bills, things that would be a very unusual sight in Sweden. Here, the bills were changed five years ago and I'm not even sure what they look like.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#700

Post by autophagian »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #676
Renaud wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just Japan. Basically most of the world except Noth America pay their waiters wages that don't depend on tips. Sure some places allow additional tipping, but it's not a mandatory fee and the workers don't have to get it to make a living.

The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. Replacing tipping with a 20% mandatory service charge -- tried many times here -- results in the employees earning less money, empirically. Eliminating tipping is unpopular with empl…

Generally, minimum wages are lower for tipped professions than non-tipped for this reason. Assuming you're talking about Seattle, which is the only place I could find with an $18.69/hr minimum wage, tipped employees make $16.50 in comparison [0].

[0]: https://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/minimum-wa...

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