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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#691

Post by gsk22 »

concordDance wrote: post #591
gsk22 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of layers at which it's misogynistic, but the most obvious one perhaps is that it wholly centers around the man in the relationship. Why must the wife be the source of the husband's unhappiness ("nagging wife" trope)? Why does he get to be the great philosopher if they're both unhappy? You can say "it's just a saying, it would be equally true with the roles reversed" -- but then, why aren't they? Sur…

In an unhappy marriage the other person is normally the source of unhappiness. Not always of course (I knew a guy who got divorced because he felt he'd missed out on having more relationships).

Sure, if you only look at the minutae. At a high level, a relationship is a bond between two people, so it's unfair to lay all the blame solely at the feet of the other person. You've probably done things that make your partner unhappy as well.

The mature way to approach the problem is to work together to resolve the issues -- or if that isn't possible, terminate the relationship. You can't just make yourself the victim and say it's all the other's fault.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#692

Post by xigoi »

concordDance wrote: post #592
Gud wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent didn’t provide an argument and the burden of proof is on them.

You can and should do better than them, not descend to their level. It's obvious to any reader that the parent was just making a bold assertion.

How do you prove that something is false if you weren't given a reason why it should be true in the first place?

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#693

Post by xigoi »

gsk22 wrote: post #690
deadpannini wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard you've laid out proposes that any statement about a man's experience in a relationship is by definition misogynistic, because it's centers the man (and, of course, erases women). Do you stand by that? Additionally, consider that you are the one bringing the nagging wife trope into this: it's merely one of many possibile explanations and unhappy marriage.

The difference is the original statement was not about a specific man's experience; it was a generalization about married men's experiences as a whole. Saying "I was in an unhappy marriage and it made me a great philosopher" would be fine. It's the generalization which is an issue here.

If someone said something similar about married women, would that be misoandrist?

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#694

Post by xigoi »

fijiaarone wrote: post #438
ajmurmann wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Individuals and interactions over processes and tools" as the Agile Manifesto would call it. Quite different from having a certified scrum master

Certified Scrum Masters are individuals who need jobs.

Then they should get a different job.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#697

Post by pdntspa »

lazybreather wrote: post #516
pdntspa wrote: post #55

I love most of the things around writing code but absolutely despise all the people that have popped up around it. Software engineering feels like a jobs program where we let nontechnical freeloaders figure out how to insert themselves into our process. I think that part of the reason that software sucks so much now is that the people designing it don't love software and technology the way we do, and it shows. I thin…

Code does not make money by itself. Business does. Code has to work for business. And if programmers can manage business, nothing like it. But someone has to. You can rarely have it both ways, code for fun and make money for the business too. And make no mistake, running a business is as difficult as building software if not more. If we assume that 'non-tech' people do not understand code, we can assume that 'tech' f…

> HN's predisposition with tech vs nontech is quite apparent.

What do you think this place is? The word "Hacker" is right in the name!

Just think, if this was "Businessperson News" (aka LinkedIn) you'd be seeing the samey agreeable groupthink drivel and probably not be exposed to the opinions of important stakeholders that are often overlooked by management types.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#698

Post by deroanth »

Aeolun wrote: post #522
schrodinger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a slight implication because it only covers men that women are the source of unhappiness (e.g. the nagging wife trope), but I agree it's trivial and likely unintentional. Agree with sibling, just as applicable as "happy married people are happy partners, unhappily married people are great philosophers".

I mean, I’ve never heard of any woman being unhappy because of a nagging husband. The source of unhappiness for women seems to be the reverse. A husband that’s not doing all the things she nags about automatically. I think priorities are just fundamentally different somehow.

I'm surprised you've never heard of a woman being unhappy because her husband wants her to do/be one thing, and she wants to do/be another. "Nagging" isn't always the stereotypical annoyance.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#699

Post by zmgsabst »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #484
zmgsabst wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The introductory paragraph makes it seem like the extent of your claim is he noticed the same behavioral trend as most psychology surveys: > Among women's differences from men were that they were, in his view, more impulsive, more compassionate, more complaining, and more deceptive. He gave the same weight to women's happiness as to men's, and in his Rhetoric stated that society could not be happy unless women were h…

You are a misogynist. This is literally the first sentence. Your post is shamefully misleading. > Aristotle saw women as subject to men, but as higher than slaves, and lacking authority; he believed the husband should exert political rule over the wife.

Yawn — you name calling because you think a cherry picked quote about family dynamics defines an entire philosopher’s view is the bad faith I’ve come to expect from people of your persuasion.

Your post is more misleading than mine: you’re hanging your entire opinion on a de-contextualized cherry-picked line and using that to ignore other parts of the philosopher’s work.

Go on, scream about how everyone who disagrees with you is an istaphobe — nobody cares.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#700

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

mixedCase wrote: post #627
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that counts. I love code but code doesn't capture the "whys". It's also not very good at giving an overview of the problem.

The "why" is pretty much the only reason to write comments! Overviews of the problem are more in the realm of spec rather than implementation planning and is another issue altogether. Of course you need to know what you're solving, but it is my point that I don't need to write a detailed document on how I'm going to solve most everyday problems when I can jump into the code and progressively work from there using the…

Most everyday problems don't need a doc to explain what you're going to do.

At my work though, if you're going to adopt a major framework or service, you need a doc explaining why you chose that one. It's a big decision that will last years.

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