Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan • Hacker News Board

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#691

Post by chestervonwinch » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

quacked wrote: post #665

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

Few people live in what can reasonably called a "community" any more, so the link between anonymous theft and the erosion of social culture doesn't make sense to everyone. The most remote, homestead-y places will have unattended "stores" where you leave out goods and people come by and leave money in the basket and take what you have. The least remote, most-managed places have security locks on items over $15. It is…

> Few people live in what can reasonably called a "community" any more, so the link between anonymous theft and the erosion of social culture doesn't make sense to everyone.

What do you think about how this relates to communities shifting almost entirely to the internet?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#692

Post by bombcar » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #656

bombcar wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do it like the expiration/plant batch codes on food - ignored unless there’s an investigation for some reason.

Who would investigate? Amazon idngaf to the point that they are find with co-mingling fake and stolen goods and selling them under their own brand.

Attorneys General, likely. Amazon would be found selling stolen goods, told to clean up, they wouldn’t, and there’d be a kerfuffle and suddenly it would be one of the items that is harder to list (try listing Milwaukee cordless equipment on Amazon now for example).

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#693

Post by josephcsible » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #523

josephcsible wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we use the terms "rent theft" or "loan theft" when people don't pay their rent or loan payments, since we use the term "wage theft" when companies don't pay their wages? In all of those cases, isn't it just not giving someone what you owe, rather than taking something away from someone?

Shoplifting is also simply refusing to pay what you owe (the price of the merchandise).

No, that would be like if you bought something with "net 30" terms and then didn't pay. With shoplifting, you're just taking someone else's stuff.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#694

Post by fakedang » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #654

joenot443 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone's saying people are born criminals. People commit crime for a variety of reasons, but it's very obvious for anyone who lives in a big American city why this is specifically a problem now. It's absolutely not media sensationalism, I've seen people walk into CVS, Target, bodegas, etc. with a bag and clear entire shelves in full sight of other shoppers. They know nobody wants to end up on TikTok acc…

You seem to be implying that this is both an NYC problem due to the DA, but also a national problem, so it probably isn't just because of a DA in one city. And that's my question - do we even actually have a national problem and if so, what are the causes on a national scale? I don't know if there actually are answers; though it's obvious everyone has their pet theories.

National problem caused by extreme virtue signaling, which in turn makes these thugs feel like they can get away with anything, while the only risk is to the careers of those doing their job who will be branded "racists"?

Honestly, it seems like that moment in the Batman movies after the Batman goes into exile and Gotham goes down the toilet. And for some reason, these don't seem to be as prevalent in Boston either, so it's definitely not a "those damned liberals" issue.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#695

Post by ohbleek » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

bushbaba wrote: post #462

el_nahual wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To further underline your point, if the chain is (thief)→(amazon)→(end user) then the fence isn't "anyone with an Amazon" account: the fence is amazon .

Except products like deodorant are considered health products. Amazon doesn’t just let you easily sell health products, you need to produce invoices, receipts, etc. More likely this stuff is sold on ebay

It seems like that can be easily faked.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#696

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

midasuni wrote: post #603

WalterBright wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you invest in something that returns 1% when there are 2% returns elsewhere? That is called the "opportunity cost", and a business is misallocating capital if the expected return is less than the opportunity cost. > The cause in the increase is possibly an increase in poverty, or increase in wealth disparity? I don't understand your question. Businesses have to have a return on their investment, or they go out…

The price will be increased until people stop buying (either because they do without, go elsewhere, or shoplift) The cost of shrinkage doesn’t factor into the price a business can charge. You don’t decide “I will buy X for $1 and sell it for $3”, you go “I can sell X for $3, where’s the cheapest I can buy it and does it make sense” Now if you have a competitor next door selling X for $2.50 you will struggle to sell f…

If you can't raise prices, you go out of business.

> if you have a competitor next door selling X for $2.50 you will struggle to sell for $3

Right, but your competitor next door is also suffering from shrinkage.

There's no way that shrinkage does not impact prices. Having the government run it won't help, either, as even if the government doesn't raise prices, the money will come out of your pocket anyway as taxes or inflation.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#697

Post by from » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:19 PM UTC

prottog wrote: post #619

mschuster91 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail stores are evil corporations and therefore deserve no sympathy. Well... it's not that weird. The big chain stores like Walmart ruthlessly exploit their workers to the point of them being forced to apply for food stamps [1], while the owner class…

> forcing people to steal to survive I really don't think these people are choosing between stealing and starving.

They're choosing between stealing and withdrawal symptoms.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#698

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

generj wrote: post #597

WalterBright wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "Rite Aid, a pharmacy, closed a branch in Hell’s Kitchen in February after losing $200,000 worth of stuff last winter. And last week Target, a big retailer, reported that a rise in “shrink” (to use the industry jargon) had reduced its gross profit margin by $400m so far this year. The National Retail Federation says inventory loss, largely driven by theft, cost retailers a record $95bn last year." I…

Just as an addition, it’s worth noting most store theft comes from employees not the public. It’s expensive to minimize opportunities for the public to steal. Basic speed bumps preventing employees (who can steal more extensively) are less expensive and tend to be the focus.

> it’s worth noting most store theft comes from employees not the public

Employee theft is always a problem, too, but whether it is worse than shrinkage or not is kind of irrelevant - it's still going to cost the business money which will mean that they'll raise prices or go under.

Employee theft can and does cause businesses to fail.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#699

Post by jakelazaroff » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #577

jakelazaroff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s a big part of the problem. By far the most common lawbreakers I see in my day-to-day are cops committing traffic infractions. You can tell you’re by a police station solely by how impassable the sidewalk becomes for pedestrians. There was an incident recently in which someone removed an obstruction from a license plate. The police ignored the illegally obscured plate but arrested the person clearing it fo…

You should never base opinions off single instances you see a news story of. Both because of the misleading nature of such stories in terms of the information they include or miss out and because single cherry picked instances are not representative.

I see it constantly, both in person and on social media. I've personally reported many cases to 311 and to officers in person, and every single time they either ignore me or lie about handling the complaint. It's so endemic that a City Council member has introduced a bill that would allow civilians themselves to ticket illegally parked vehicles [1].

So no, it's not a single news story. This one just happened to be a particularly egregious display of NYPD lawlessness.

[1] https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/11/07/update-restler-bill-t...

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#700

Post by from » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #392

prvit wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you ran a store that repeatedly sold stolen goods do you think local police and prosecutors would ignore you? Yes, if you operated your business in a way similar to Amazon the cops and prosecutors would in fact almost certainly ignore you.

Really? I just googled my location plus "trafficked stolen property conviction" and found news stories regarding multiple convictions. It sure seems like the police investigate and arrest people knowingly selling stolen property. In what sense is Amazon not doing this, or recklessly disregarding whether or not they are doing this? If I were a multi-hundred billion dollar business operating like Amazon, then of course…

Stolen property convictions at least at the local level primarily come from stings where police come in with property that they describe as "boosted" or in similar terms and then once the sale is completed they arrest the store owner. Amazon being online is obviously immune to this kind of police work. As long as Amazon removes the seller once they become aware something is wrong they are probably not breaking any laws. Some states are trying to pass laws to make ecommerce platforms vet sellers more but I doubt this will make a difference because it is not hard to make fake invoices.