Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 852 posts

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#691

Post by henryfjordan »

gnicholas wrote: post #638
ska wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every jurisdiction is different in details, of course, but "at-will" just means you can fire someone, not that you get to decide what happens after unilaterally (e.g. you may owe severance)

Is that the case in CA or NY? I don't know where else Twitter has large offices, but presumably these would be two of the largest. I'm pretty sure in CA the employer doesn't automatically owe severance. It's usually offered in return for a promise not to sue (and sometimes also a promise not to speak ill of). There's the WARN Act, but I don't think that impacts what happens after a duly-warned layoff, unless I'm mist…

The California WARN Act requires companies of a certain size who are laying off 50+ employees to give 60 days notice to the employees.

Technically the company can't get around the WARN act through severance but it is essentially pre-paying the damages so there's no reason to go to court.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#692

Post by ok_dad »

noizejoy wrote: post #624
ok_dad wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even fucking Google keeps putting a half-page pop-up on my iPhone saying "WANT TO SIGN IN, OR JUST KEEP SEARCHING 'ANONYMOUSLY' LIKE A CHUMP?" or something just as fucking annoying.

The Guardian does something similar.

Yea, and the annoying part about Google is that you know that they know you're user X, just not logged in. They know I am logged in to several different accounts from this IP, they know I search for similar stuff under those accounts as I do when not logged in, etc. I feel like it would be more honest for Google to write something like, "Hey, ok_dad, we know it's you, just log in so we can save your porn searches to your account properly, rather than having to do data mining on your nasty habits."

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#693

Post by DangitBobby »

kcplate wrote: post #546
llbeansandrice wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because American SWEs are able to exploit the current workers paradigm in the US due to eye-watering amounts of money from VCs and the state of ad-tech doesn't mean jack shit for any at-will salaried employee that isn't paid in truck-loads of equity. There are states in the US where teacher's unions are out-lawed. US workers don't have rights. I have a feeling you might feel differently if not part of the segmen…

> There are states in the US where teacher's unions are out-lawed. That’s a bold statement. Care to back it up?

2nd link on Kagi search (first one says the same things):

1. https://www.businessinsider.com/states-where-teachers-unions...

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#694

Post by btilly »

lmm wrote: post #650
btilly wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.) The downside of employee protections is that it makes companies more reluctant to hire. And also once hired, the salary to be offered is reduced to cover the estimated current value of the future employee protections. These are real downsides, particularly for young people who are trying to get a foot into the corporate ladder. I have even personally witnessed a…

> TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.) Maybe not, but the world isn't zero-sum. Some things really do raise or lower the overall average. > I have even personally witnessed a situation where a company evaluated a legal change to increase employee protections, and decided to layoff almost everyone in a particular country before the new law took effect. (The company was Pictage, the country was Argen…

The law change would double the period for which severance had to be paid. This additional liability would have been a significant fraction of the net worth of the company.

The 2008 financial crisis had left the company in a position where it needed to downsize anyways, and the board of directors gave the CEO the choice between covering that liability by making the US layoff bigger, or avoiding the extra liability by getting rid of basically the whole Argentinian operation. The CEO chose to preserve US jobs.

The Argentinian operation would have seen a layoff either way. But nowhere near as dramatic as the one that actually happened.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#695

Post by prvc »

linuxhansl wrote: post #276
saurik wrote: post #253

6 months ago it was all painted (maybe seemingly, though, by prior executives who weren't speaking for Musk) as if this wouldn't be a big deal for employees, which to me makes this idea that people are being rapidly fired "for cause" after a suddenly-imposed weekend work shift deadline extra shitty :/. (Even if I do sometimes claim that Twitter is incompetent as an organization or bloated with idle staff, these are h…

Firing 25% of the workforce "for cause" looks like a very hard sell to me, and would open up Twitter for a barrage of lawsuits - and rightly so. Even laying off 25% of the workers would be hard to justify at this point. I'm certainly curious where this all is going.

>Firing 25% of the workforce "for cause" looks like a very hard sell to me

Why would this be? Musk has already signaled his lack of confidence in the previous management, why would this not extend to their hiring practices, training, HR policies, etc.?

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#696

Post by ajb »

refulgentis wrote: post #688
agsnu wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is currently engaged in litigation over allegedly firing employees without providing necessary 60 day notice period under California law, denying them pay as a result, so it would appear that Musk has precedent.

Precedent is when there's case law backing something. I think you're thinking of Musk's PR and decision making, not the company: there certainly isn't case law for letting go of _25% of the company, for cause_

Yeah, the term is "has form".

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#697

Post by spaced-out »

btilly wrote: post #549
hef19898 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories like this make like the employee protection I enjoy even more.

TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.) The downside of employee protections is that it makes companies more reluctant to hire. And also once hired, the salary to be offered is reduced to cover the estimated current value of the future employee protections. These are real downsides, particularly for young people who are trying to get a foot into the corporate ladder. I have even personally witnessed a…

>The downside of employee protections is that it makes companies more reluctant to hire. And also once hired, the salary to be offered is reduced to cover the estimated current value of the future employee protections.

Yep, that why software engineers in California and New York, where there are a lot of employee protections, don't get paid as much as SWEs in the Midwest or the South, where there are less... Right?

Or maybe the real economy is more complex than the kiddie models you were taught in Econ 101?

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#698

Post by guerrilla »

refulgentis wrote: post #688
agsnu wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is currently engaged in litigation over allegedly firing employees without providing necessary 60 day notice period under California law, denying them pay as a result, so it would appear that Musk has precedent.

Precedent is when there's case law backing something. I think you're thinking of Musk's PR and decision making, not the company: there certainly isn't case law for letting go of _25% of the company, for cause_

> Precedent is when there's case law backing something.

No, you're thinking of a restricted version of the second definition from Merriam-Webster, while it was clearly the first definition that was meant.

precedent. noun

1. an earlier occurrence of something similar

2. a : something done or said that may serve as an example or rule to authorize or justify a subsequent act of the same or an analogous kind a verdict that had no precedent b : the convention established by such a precedent or by long practice

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#699

Post by [deleted] »

refulgentis wrote: post #688
agsnu wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is currently engaged in litigation over allegedly firing employees without providing necessary 60 day notice period under California law, denying them pay as a result, so it would appear that Musk has precedent.

Precedent is when there's case law backing something. I think you're thinking of Musk's PR and decision making, not the company: there certainly isn't case law for letting go of _25% of the company, for cause_

[deleted]

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#700

Post by colinmhayes »

watwut wrote: post #452
MichaelCollins wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've known that lines of code were no indication of code quality or developer productivity for well over two decades now You're severely overstating it. The difference between 500 loc and 5000 loc isn't a clear signal of anything. But zero lines of code certainly is. Firing people because the VCS shows they stopped working is common.

Zero code situation is wishful thinking - poster just made it up.

There are people on my team that haven’t committed anything for a couple weeks. I don’t work at Twitter, but wouldn’t be surprised if there were people who basically weren’t working.
Post reply on HN