“Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#691

Post by davidguetta » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 12:37 PM UTC

yes_really wrote: post #578

bglazer wrote: post #485

This is in Nature Human Behavior. This is a social science/psychology journal, a field which is suffering from the reproducibility crisis, perhaps worse than any other field. So, any result in this field should be viewed with significant skepticism. This is true for research into population group differences, and extremely true for IQ research into race, which is almost hopelessly noisy and confounded. It is a simple…

IQ research is the one area in social sciences that does not suffer from reproducibility crisis. You're clearly not against it because of reproducibility; you are against it because it goes against your ideological worldview. > Second, research results in population group differences are social poison. They are memetic viruses that fuel violent extremism. We had a full summer of violent riots because of the "Black Li…

Serious question why would you need "studies" or "research to know thr police is racist.

That will just not help solving the problem

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#692

Post by trasz » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 12:41 PM UTC

dissent wrote: post #610

pj_mukh wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremism doesn’t need scientific backing to exist but it does need scientific backing to make the center complacent. The shooting was a good example but a better example is an extremist takeover of the government buoyed by a complacent public swindled by flimsy science. It’s happened before, it’ll happen again.

Could you not argue that religious teaching should be suppressed since it often stands in opposition to fact, therefore is responsible for misinformation leading to violence? (and let's face it, that's probably pretty hard to argue against)

What’s wrong with suppressing religious “teaching”? Let me remind you that freedom of religion was mostly about freedom from religion.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#693

Post by laverya » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 12:45 PM UTC

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #202

goethes_kind wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this perspective, that aborting fetuses whose prospects are guaranteed to be worse, is somehow wrong or even oppression, and somehow oppression of a whole group of other people completely unrelated to the family. If me and my wife are planning a baby, that's between us. There is no outside group that has a say or is somehow being oppressed when we decide that we do not want a child who is going to…

There is one very common case where people abort fetuses because of reasons that are not "saving the child from worse prospects". This is people not wanting girls because "girls are economic and social liabilities and boys are assets". In my country, sex-selective abortion has been so prevalent that doctors now don't tell parents the sex of the fetus. If they did, very quickly would there be a difference of millions…

The more western equivalent of this is screening for Down's Syndrome.

In certain countries, essentially all Down's babies are aborted. (98% in Denmark, for example)

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#694

Post by marsa » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 12:49 PM UTC

wrp wrote: post #659

claudiawerner wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true - science is a social process just as much as it is a method; it has institutions, funding, public relations, disputes on technical and non-technical points (article is case in point). As a social institution, it is well within the purview of social norms, unless we are to exempt scientists from criticism of their activities while wearing a lab coat (or to render such criticism incoherent) -…

You and he are using "science" for different things. He is talking about a methodology, and you are talking about social institutions. It's like the difference between "prayer" and "the Church". The methodology of prayer is independent of what social agenda the Church may pursue.

could you please elaborate? because to me it feels like prayer (on an individual level) is very much aligned with the church's social agenda (on a global level)

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#695

Post by geoduck14 » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 12:52 PM UTC

davidguetta wrote: post #691

yes_really wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ research is the one area in social sciences that does not suffer from reproducibility crisis. You're clearly not against it because of reproducibility; you are against it because it goes against your ideological worldview. > Second, research results in population group differences are social poison. They are memetic viruses that fuel violent extremism. We had a full summer of violent riots because of the "Black Li…

Serious question why would you need "studies" or "research to know thr police is racist. That will just not help solving the problem

You mentioned your question is serious. I'm assuming you want a serious answer. For others reading this: please assume positive intent for OP and my self. There is no need for flame wars.

Studies are important for police racism because: collecting data on who, when, and why can help us resolve the racism. To be specific, not all police are racist. A study could help identify who is more likely to be racist. Then we decide do we retrain these people or fire them or... something else. Meanwhile, we keep the other police or have them train the racist police.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#696

Post by generj » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 1:02 PM UTC

trashtester wrote: post #686

pryce wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This alarmist comparison of yours would impress basically no one who has studied in relevant fields, such as bioethics. The relationship between ethics and research has a fascinating and sobering history, one full of richness, horror, and a good deal of quiet ego shattering awe at all the multitude of different ways of being human we have previously organised to eradicate. The calls you see for greater attention to b…

If a group has power to prevent other people from writing or saying things about them that they do not like, even otherwise legitimate scientific findings in a scientific journal, I would say it is proof that they DO have power. Kind of like how Putin and Xi are able to prevent citizens in their respective countries to write bad things about them. > Would we allow terminating pregnancy on the basis that the parents d…

Moving beyond the abortion issues, in the hypothetical above there’s a real chance various regimes would do blood work on their living populations and kill or imprison non-out LGBT people (plus whatever straight people get included due to measurement error).

Knowing that this outcome is likely, is it ethically responsible to publish?

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#697

Post by rayiner » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #532

rayiner wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The galling thing about this was that he was fire by a white-controlled organization for saying “people think rioting is bad.” Rioting continued and democrats didn’t stand up and say “rioting is bad,” and as a result of that rioting the criminal justice movement was set back a decade. In Minneapolis now Ilhan Omar barely won her primary because she wants to defund the police and even Black people want more cops: http…

Culture wars in the US are primarily white-on-white violence.

I have a white friend who once asked me “why do you always sound like you’re defending my racist uncle?” (I think I made some comment about understanding where Trump voters are coming from re: immigration since people in my own home country would think the same way.) And I’m thinking “why do your views on race and immigration seem to be a proxy for your conflict with your uncle?”

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#698

Post by geoduck14 » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

parkingrift wrote: post #662

bglazer wrote: post #485

This is in Nature Human Behavior. This is a social science/psychology journal, a field which is suffering from the reproducibility crisis, perhaps worse than any other field. So, any result in this field should be viewed with significant skepticism. This is true for research into population group differences, and extremely true for IQ research into race, which is almost hopelessly noisy and confounded. It is a simple…

Good grief I can’t believe you are serious. Mass shootings almost never happen, and when they do they aren’t because of bad research. It’s almost comical that you believe extremists are scouring scientific journals to fuel their hatred. Censorship has never worked, but oh don’t worry in this circumstance it will definitely work. Because reasons.

I wonder if research into the frequency and severity of mass shootings would be permitted into the journal - or if it would be blocked because it might promote harm

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#699

Post by Blackstrat » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

This article isn't ethics. It's ideology. It is not unethical to identify differences in various cultural, demographic, or organizational groups, or any others for that matter. It used to be called science. A prime example of this thinking is the media's treatment of the Monkey Pox risks. If the researchers and the media had had the courage to acknowledge that those most at risk were men indulging in gay sex, we'd likely have seen fewer cases and fewer lives disrupted. As a retiree, should we be "protected" from research that says active retirees who eat well live longer than their sedentary peers who live on beer and pizza? At the end of the day, it's time for people to quit hiding behind ideology and start dealing with reality. It's sorely needed.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#700

Post by mike00632 » Fri, Aug 26, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

the_omegist wrote: post #601

bawolff wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think trans activism with kids is a severe violence. You think trans activism is equivalent to shooting someone? I mean, i think most people are going to dismiss you as crazy if you think words and ideas of any form are equivalently violent to shooting someone in the head. At the very least you would need to back up such a radical proposition with some very compelling arguments.

Then perhaps you should be a little less materialist? Psychological violence can be more terrible than physical violence. And ideologies caused more damages and deaths in history than any conventional "war".

Trans people are being systematically oppressed. New laws are being made to single them out and ban them from public life. Characterizing healthcare for trans people as "violence" is rather disgusting attempt to further marginalize them by denying them medical services.

The Conservative push to make trans people the new Boogeyman is absolutely wretched.