Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 1001 posts

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#691

Post by eyelidlessness »

sizzle wrote: post #673

Genuine question, what is stopping you from identifying as another caste in 2022 with the mass adoption of the concept of identifying with different genders? Just like being assigned a sex of Male or Female at birth, those who don’t want to associate can identify with another gender identity or even transition their bodies to whatever sex they please. I don’t buy the notion that once a Dalit by birth you are destined…

> Genuine question, what is stopping you from identifying as another caste in 2022 with the mass adoption of the concept of identifying with different genders?

Since this is a genuine question, there’s something you should know about not conforming to the gender you were assigned at birth: we’re not accepted for our identity either. The concept of self-identification is separate from cultural acceptance of it.

Moving to a place, however unrealistic the prospect, where autonomy in identity is more common doesn’t automatically make it safe or practical. Generally speaking, people who would benefit from emigrating, and can, already do. And they’re facing much more entrenched biases of racism and xenophobia.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#692

Post by sangnoir »

moab wrote: post #560
vijaybritto wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it were that easy. First of all lying like that is near impossible unless you know every single thing done in a Brahmin household, you'll be caught eventually. In a workplace setting, you might be boycotted but if this were in India, you have a high chance of getting murdered brutally. Dalits get killed for just riding a horse, walking through upper caste residential streets and many normal things. In this sca…

The claims made in this post are in dire need of citations, and don't strike me as believable. And just FWIW, most first-generation Indians in America couldn't give two shits about the caste system.

COunterpoint: TFA. Indians at Google definitely gave at least one shit about caste, probably more.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#693

Post by throwaway_1928 »

dang wrote: post #468

Related threads - others? Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30515099 - March 2022 (543 comments) India’s tech sector reinforces old caste divides - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29994226 - Jan 2022 (5 comments) The Casteism I See in America and American Tech Companies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29133517 - Nov 2021 (5 comments) How Big Tech Is Imp…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#694

Post by s1artibartfast »

josephg wrote: post #668
s1artibartfast wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a caste system. If you want to talk about social mobility, we can talk about that as a separate topic. What does ideal social mobility look like to you? Here is a baseline for discussion: https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

Systems of social class and caste systems aren't the same - but they're definitely related. Subtle bias against the lower classes is absolutely alive and well in the west. We just don't talk about it, or consciously notice it a lot of the time. People who grew up in poor areas, or who didn't go to good schools just "don't seem like one of us" or fail "culture fit" interviews.

They are related in that they are both possible forms of discrimination. The spectrum runs from chattel race slavery to ugly people getting laid less.

Social class objectively exists, but I think it is disingenuous to say class bias has an impact anywhere close to that of the caste system on life outcomes, or deterministically dictates economic outcomes.

There is a loose correlation between class and outcomes, but this also includes perfectly logical factors like better educational attainment, parental nurturing, support, crime, and drug use.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#695

Post by malandrew »

devnonymous wrote: post #399
okdood64 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there! Thanks for writing this. One question I've always had is, how do you know you're Dalit if you were born outside of India? How do others? Especially, say, when meeting other Indians in some tech company in the US?

If you were born outside of India, it would be pretty much like any other national /racial identity -- inferred from family (based on family names for instance). Like mentioned in the GPs write-up: > Unlike race, it’s easier to hide your caste, especially in a new country. Many dalits change their official last name to something common enough that it’s hard to identify them.

Do they choose names that are Brahmin or generic names that can't be associated with caste, including non-Indian names?

If the latter, is it reasonable to assume that Brahmins in power are likely not only discriminating against those who are Dalit, but also discriminating against those that they know are not Brahmin (Indians and non-Indians) in favor of Brahmins?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#696

Post by anon2020dot00 »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #685
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment simply adds nothing. "Do you even know how wrong your beliefs are?", without any further elaboration or commentary, is just pointless. Explain yourself and provide references and you'll accumulate upvotes instead.

Edited my original comment, because apparently racists require nuanced dismissals of their wrong beliefs.

“There is some good in this world, and it’s worth fighting for.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#697

Post by l33t2328 »

saagarjha wrote: post #645
l33t2328 wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women and minorities have it pretty good here, so I hope you’re joking.

Pretty good compared to what?

Compared to anywhere in the world. You can’t get much better than 5 or 6 Eastern European countries and the US/Canada

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#698

Post by sreevisakh »

eternalban wrote: post #272
whoevercares wrote: post #190

I observed it multiple times during CS graduate school. An Indian high caste classmate refused to let his roommate sleep in the same bedroom. The higher caste guy told us that his roommate is of lower caste. The other poor guy ended up very obedient and sleep in the couch for 2 years. They have a group of high caste guys and talk sht about a few fellow low caste guys in the class Eye opening.

! This was in US? What school was this?

"If Hindus migrate to other regions on earth, Indian caste would become a world problem." - Dr. B R Ambedkar said this in 1916 [1]. The surprising incident in US was predicted more than a century ago.

For more context, Dr. B R Ambedkar was the main architect of the constitution of India. He also formulated the affirmative action for Dalit representation, called the reservation system. He was one of the so called Dalits who faced extreme caste discrimination in India despite his brilliance and all his achievements. There are documented instances where upper caste government officers refused to touch files that he signed. The discrimination was so bad that he and 500K of his followers converted to Buddhism.

These days, some sections treat him like an ideological revolutionary (sort of like marxism or leninism). Many are openly calling for replacing his ideas with those from manusmriti - an ancient text that is a huge source of racism and misogyny in India. Hope this gives you some insight into the problem.

[1] http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/txt_...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#699

Post by sreevisakh »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #551
whoevercares wrote: post #190

I observed it multiple times during CS graduate school. An Indian high caste classmate refused to let his roommate sleep in the same bedroom. The higher caste guy told us that his roommate is of lower caste. The other poor guy ended up very obedient and sleep in the couch for 2 years. They have a group of high caste guys and talk sht about a few fellow low caste guys in the class Eye opening.

This is unthinkable in any IIT/NIT in India. I think casteism is somewhat worse in the US

Either that is lack of awareness or a misrepresentation. Please have a look at this: https://theprint.in/opinion/brahmins-on-india-campuses-study... . There were lots of anecdotes about this going around. But it's documented news these days.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#700

Post by sangnoir »

puranjay wrote: post #497
whoevercares wrote: post #190

I observed it multiple times during CS graduate school. An Indian high caste classmate refused to let his roommate sleep in the same bedroom. The higher caste guy told us that his roommate is of lower caste. The other poor guy ended up very obedient and sleep in the couch for 2 years. They have a group of high caste guys and talk sht about a few fellow low caste guys in the class Eye opening.

High caste people in India will often find ways to casually mention their caste in conversation, sometimes within minutes of meeting someone new. Its reflexive - like subtly turning your wrist to show off a new watch. And I have no data to corroborate this, but I've felt caste chauvinism increase in the last few years.

> And I have no data to corroborate this, but I've felt caste chauvinism increase in the last few years.

...as has Hindu nationalism, as noted in the article.

Post reply on HN