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Windows needs a change in priorities

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Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#691

Post by AlexandrB »

bayindirh wrote: post #659
croes wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to keep old the old API for backwards compatibility it's another to lack a new API for the new UI. >The API to render a Windows 11 native context menu does not exist.

My comment was not about that. That lack of API situation is unacceptable from my point of view, but I'm not terribly surprised about that when we're talking about Microsoft. My comment was about the paragraph starting with: There’s a meme about how there are at least ten different design conventions in Windows 11 and it’s very much “in your face” once you start using Windows 11 on the daily.

A lot of the examples of inconsistent UI in the article are things built into Windows. For example the "Windows security center" vs. "Eject disk" context menus. I think it's fine for third-party apps to have differences in UI based on their vintage, but why are Microsoft's own apps and utilities all over the map? Microsoft has also done a really bad job of evolving existing UI frameworks. Instead they seem to replace the whole thing every few years with something new and shiny which leads to even more inconsistency. The article lists all of these:

> There is Windows Forms, WPF, MAUI, UWP, WTL, WinUI, MFC, and I am sure others that I am missing.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#692

Post by stuffbyspencer »

Hot Take that no doubt will meet a lot of doubt: I would make a prediction that Window's next OS, is going to be semi-Linux based.

Imagine Windows doing to their OS the way they did with their browser, forking opensource code and rebranding it as their own. I could see them deciding to take some flavor of Linux (or maybe even something esoteric like Google's Fuchsia), and just slapping on their bloat & spyware.

I don't think this would damage Microsoft's marketshare as much as some people think. Sure, they no longer have "their own codebase", but I don't see the benefit in that. Hell, they could go lower & build off the actual Linux kernel and then build there own distro off of that. That way they can still enforce certain structures at a low level.

I would deeply enjoy this, although I would not use it (sticking with Linux). But imagine Microsoft embracing & advocating for AppImages/Flatpaks/Snap packages, Vulken, WINE/Steam Proton, etc. Imagine building for only 2 platforms to get your app running on (nearly) all devices. Imagine having Linux on the desktop get the same treatment it got with Linux on mobile.

Again, I understand this sounds like I'm predicting pigs will fly, or it'll rain cats & dogs, or the government will be efficient, but I'm serious, I can see this happening. Maybe not soon, but the next decade could be very interesting to see how this fabled "new" Microsoft moves & behaves.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#693

Post by gxt »

I don't understand the surprise expressed by many in this thread. There's 47k engineers all working very hard to justify their job at MS, there's no incentive on making a good product, it just has to sell, keep your boss happy and that's it. Why would you expect that many people working fulltime to output anything consistent? There's only so many real requirements to get a product that works, and as soon as someone gets his hands on them it inevitably threatens an other team. So new requirements are created and you end up with this.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#694

Post by prewett »

konstmonst wrote: post #400
tjr225 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you care about gaming MacOS has been rock solid for at least a decade. For what it is worth I am no mac fanboy, I am typing this to you on a windows 10 computer in my shop(that I use for gaming, among other things).

I've got a Mac at work and I hate it with passion. I now use my own linux Laptop instead. There is no del key, no home, ctrl and alt are swapped in some aplications and not the others. Login screeen does not remember the language and animations come back after every update even when I explicitly disable them. Muscle memory from other 99% computers I use doesn't work and most of the games don't. I feel like mac os is…

Delete forward is Fn + delete, Home is Fn + up. It's not a specific key, obviously, but all those keys don't fit on a laptop. However, if you plug in your own keyboard I'm sure they'll be recognized.

My experience is that the only apps that use actual Ctrl on macOS are GTK apps, like Inkscape, and terminal apps (because Ctrl-C should be quite different from activating the menu item corresponding to the Cmd-C shortcut). Unfortunately, if you use non-native apps, you're going to get a non-native experience.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#695

Post by goosedragons »

the_snooze wrote: post #258
GekkePrutser wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teams works on Linux now. It's a pig of an app especially on Mac (haven't tried Linux enough to verify) but it runs. On my Mac it takes a minute to start (fast M1 system), randomly crashes or hangs and often uses more than half my memory. But it is supported :)

It "works," but not well enough for my purposes. I need to be able to share PowerPoint on Teams with my full slides visible to participants, and speaker notes visible only to me. There's no native PowerPoint for Linux, so that's a no-go.

PDFs? Unless participants need to edit the actual slides themselves what's wrong with PDFs? Most half decent PDF readers these days have a presentation mode where it goes full screen and arrow keys page through. Yes, you lose swoopy animations, sound effects and video but that's arguably a plus. And participants can read the slides on a wider range of devices with little hassle. Your speaker notes can stay with whatever slide program was used to make them.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#697

Post by kasabali »

emptysongglass wrote: post #439
deadbeeves wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. All the LTSC does is freeze the features Windows had at release and give you security updates. You're still stuck with whatever was there at launch. Suggesting switching to an entirely different OS to someone who's complaining that their habitual OS no longer behaves as it used to isn't very useful. >I'm not really sure what to make of this as…

> You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. To be clear I support my wife's LTSC install and use Windows 11 with WSL and WSLg for work. > I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. > suppose you find a shoe manufacturer t…

> please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid

>> UX Consistency

Check

>> Widgets & MSN

Check

>> Unnecessary Cosmetic Changes

If we're strictly talking about OP's grievances, current LTSC doesn't have them but next LTSC based on Windows 11 will.

>> Customization Lock-In

Same as above

>> Telemetry & Microsoft Account

LTSC provides one extra level of telemetry setting but even set to that level it's still chock full of telemetry.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#698

Post by goosedragons »

yathaid wrote: post #572
rthomas6 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with Linux nowadays? I've used it as my main driver for long enough that I can't see the big problems that are preventing everyone from switching. Like, it seems easier than even WSL to me. Beginner friendly distos seem to have solved the package management problem, and there are adequate desktop environments, office suites, browsers, gaming, and everything else. If a person has good hardware compatibil…

This article has a laundry list of things that annoyed the heck out of me. So I decided to try and dual boot to Ubuntu on my Surface Pro 7. This may come across as a rant, but I do not mean it that way. I know the tears and sweat people have pored it into this. Anyway, here is the list of things that I found are broken: - HDPI monitor support is BAD. Unity cannot do fractional scaling, resulting in perfect fonts on t…

Ubuntu Unity the desktop environment Ubuntu abandoned back in 18.04? On X11 with Gnome 3 with Ubuntu 20.04 it does actually support fractional scaling and if IIRC does it in a somewhat similar way to MacOS where it scales up the res*2 then downscales it. For whatever reason either GNOME didn't accept Ubuntu's changes or they didn't submit them upstream so it doesn't work in any other distro for GNOME 3. It actually works pretty well IME. It possible to mimic it with the right call to xrandr in other DEs.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#699

Post by fleddr »

As a lifelong Windows user (since 3.11), Microsoft has always sucked at Windows. It started as a single user, non-networked OS with an OK UI, followed by 25 years of duct tape.

They've never had "taste". Even their attempts at modern flat design are a total disaster.

Security for the longest of time was an afterthought, an entire industry was created to fill this fundamental gap. Even "internet" was an afterthought.

Another issue is that Microsoft does not see things through. They start various seemingly random initiatives and then just give up halfway through. They suck at execution. It's been 10 years since Windows 8, and the UI is messier than ever. Same for their various attempts at a "light" or mobile version of Windows.

I could go on, but the way I see it, Windows is the "people's OS". The use case for it is...all of them. It runs the combined use cases of billions of people, every niche you can think of. Most of these users do not see Windows as particularly enjoyable, nor do they enjoy Microsoft's mismanagement, they suffer in silence because it still somewhat works, and there's no realistic alternative.

Windows is not cool and not high growth, which is why I think Microsoft is doing an "Adobe". It's a platform to sell cloud products and soon will be a cloud platform/subscription in itself. Windows as a service. The writing is on the wall.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#700

Post by dimgl »

choward wrote: post #440
dimgl wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this argument in every thread about Linux. There's always this one magical user where everything "just works", has had 0 issues and everything's just dandy.

What are some specific issues? Most of the stuff I hear is either hardware related or some software someone used on Windows doesn't exist on Linux. For hardware issues it depends on the hardware you're using. Since most drivers aren't open source, full Linux support often comes a while after it's released. I don't use the most recent hardware and haven't had a problem where something doesn't "just work" in years. I d…

In Gnome I cannot add certain binaries to the dock unless I edit a file and point to it. Basic feature that both MacOS and Windows support.
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