Earlier quoted context omitted.
When there's a law that makes adblocking illegal. I will gladly leave the web behind forever. But to equate adblocking to stealing is hyperbolic nonsense. And to out right call me a thief is insulting. Looks like I struck a nerve; or maybe this whole thread did. Maybe you're in ad tech? I hope you are. I hope you read through this entire thread and soak in just how rotten your industry is; so reviled even here on HN.
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Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
691–700 of 844 posts
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#692Quoted post unavailable.
I heavily disagree with your analogy. In your parallel you are obviously assuming that there is a contract in place. And by covering my ears and eyes I'd be obviously breaking the contract and would have to pay the pizza or get punished in an appropriate manner. If there isn't a contract and the pizza place would just give you a pizza and some ads, and you ignore the ads, that would be completely legal and in no way…
Of course you are. That's a very different scenario. I get junk mail all the time. It goes in the trash. Always.
It is UNSOLICITED.
> It's completely ridiculous to speak about "theft". Theft always requires actively taking something.
Exactly!
You are destroying your own construct here.
The very first time you visit a website, you see ads. If you disagree with advertising and you visit that site again with an ad blocker, you have made a decision to steal their product.
They did not force you to visit a second time and you know they use ads to finance their existence.
They did not send you unsolicited content.
This is theft, because, to use your own definition, you "actively take something", by explicitly going to their site and blocking their potential revenue streams.
You might say: Well, since I have an ad blocker I have no way of knowing who has ads.
Right. Sure. Let's add that to the series of delusions supporting such thinking.
> I ask via the official way to ask for the content and they decide to send it to me. What I then do with the content on my local system is completely irrelevant and I have to right to modify it however I want, as long as I don't make it public or use it commercially obviously.
These sites support jobs, families, businesses. You think you are entitled to take their work product for free because you think so, because you think so, because you think so.
That's what it comes down to at the most basic: You think someone should work for you for free because you don't like what they do to pay for their salaries. Instead of not consuming their work product, you happily steal it. What do you think lies behind these sites? Robots? Picture a family having dinner next time you enable your ad blocker, perhaps that will introduce some humanity in your thinking.
I find that issues sometimes become much easier to understand when we explore the limits. In this case the obvious limit is 100% ad-blocking. The world-wide consequences would be severe way before we got to 100% blocking. The internet would likely collapse very quickly without advertising. People like you find all kinds of creative ways to rationalize stealing the work of others. If you don't agree with how they generate cashflow to pay for their salaries, don't consume their product.
The other thing I find is that people having such ideas, generally speaking, are folks who have never in their lives launched and operated a non-trivial business where they had to be responsible for the payroll that supported dozens of families. It is way easier to think of a website as a URL with no humanity behind it when you have never had such experience in life.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#693I stopped watching network TV in the 1990s when it reached about 25% ads (i.e. 7.5 minutes of ads in a 30 minute window. May have been only 7 minutes, memory is fuzzy now). The web was a relief. You could actually consume content and tune out the (then primitive, usually just a banner at the top) ads. The web, specifically un-adblocked Youtube, is now at about the same point as where I quit TV. Just not worth the agg…
> But will "Manifest V3" tip things back to unbearable? We'll see. Switch to Firefox now before Firefox market share dips to the level where publishers can justify not supporting it and you're stuck with only crippled adblocking forever?
DRM essentially means: only allow access with a program that implements certain required measures to restrict user's control over their own computer. Using content decryption blobs to restrict user's access to media streams handled by their own computer — is only a beginning, Web DRM will be eventually extended to allow more restrictions, including those to make it much harder to interfere with the display of ads.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess what constitutes "malware" is based on what the ad is doing - if it's benign, it's an ad and I'm fine with that. If it's hostile/tracking scripts masquerading as an ad, then obviously that's a problem. I call it "malware blocking" because of multiple past experiences like I mentioned above, and the way to avoid them is with these "ad blockers" (though I guess a more generic term, like "content blocker", is pe…
Even the most "benign" unsolicited ad is still basically malware for your brain.
Definitively can't say I miss any of them (web & TV ads).
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#695Curious - why does Youtube not figure out how to outsmart ad blockers? Is it technically not possible to embed ads into the video such that the ad blocker cannot detect it?
Good question. It is a cat and mouse game but certainly possible for YouTube to (at least) only release part Y of the video after a certain amount of time has elapsed since part X was released. And if YouTube really wanted to seamlessly glue the ads and video together, I think it would be insurmountable from an adblocker's perspective.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#696To answer the question posed by the site. How can they afford 261MB page load instead of 5MB? Because the largest expense of delivering video, the bandwidth, is still very cheap. We're talking less than one cent per gigabyte. Even if ad rates are really low, they're bringing in more than 1 cent per ad play.
> the bandwidth, is still very cheap. This is yet another example of US/BayArea Privilege blindness. It is NOT cheap in most places to the User. Including in the unprivileged-USA. The user pays a lot for that bandwidth. Specially now that everyone will unknowingly move to predatory 5G home services but let me try to stay on topic. People out of the Empire Center will pay both bandwidth and processing power. Where do…
I'm sure this was an answer to the article this thread references. Bandwidth is cheap and it only gets cheaper.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#697I'm in some weird Facebook limbo where I get zero ads (native app, browser with adblock turned off, etc.) Please don't tell Mark My wife is blown away when she sees my feed. It's like we've been using completely different apps for years.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#698Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just an aside as a former carpenter: Battery powered hand tool systems are a big cost now, especially that brushless motor have got so good. Its important to think about them as a system, like will replacement batteries still exist in 2 years, can more tools work with the same battery, etc. That makes it harder to try something and see how good it is. I agree with you re many tools though. For tools I'd recommend tal…
Can anyone explain why such systems are so seemingly successful? I find it surprising. It seems great to create vendor lock-in, but they also change the form factor frequently enough that you have to replace your entire system in order to benefit from it being a system anyway; at which point you might change vendors. It feels like the first vendor that stops changing form factor wins; but they all still keep changing…
The smaller brands like Craftsman and "store brands" seem to change relatively randomly.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can twist and turn your way around arguments and convince yourself that you are not a thief. That's fine. Good for you. Enjoy. Behind all of this there are businesses, which consist of people with jobs who have families and responsibilities. Just because you don't see the effects of your actions it does not mean there are no effects. You are stealing something that costs money to create and support and you have c…
No need to twist and turn anything. No contract, no obligations whatsoever. It's literally as simple as that. The content provider is free to stop providing the content at any time
Ad-blocking users think of sites as being completely devoid of any humanity. In most cases, nothing could be farther from the truth.
You might have rationalized that you are not stealing anything. Yet, you are, you are stealing the work product of dozens to thousands or tens of thousands of people.
Beyond that, you are likely costing others money. Your usage has consequences. A simple example is the cost of bandwidth, servers and support personnel. A loss of revenue due to ad blocking has to be compensated by raising rates to others, laying people off, etc.
This isn't a victimless activity. I know folks try to convince themselves they are on a righteous path of some sort. That's a fantasy. You are stealing.
It's no different from downloading free books from the many bootleg websites out there. Why go to Amazon and buy them when you can steal them. Hey, I ask for the content and they send it to me! I am not stealing!
Sure.
Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web
#700I call it a malware blocker, rather than an adblocker - here's my reasoning: One day I was on a classifieds site[1], browsing listings, when after a few pages, I was met with a page redirect to one of those scammy support center sites (taking over the browser), advising that my computer had been infected by a virus (obviously hadn't) and I needed to call in to "Apple's Support Center" immediately. This was on Safari…