California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#691

Post by etergri » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #451

I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…

because most people are morons. The same who advocate that males and females are completely 'equal'. They are not. And you can rage all you want, there are and there will always be evolutionary differences. Deal with it, idiots. Discriminating != pretending differences don't exist.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#692

Post by cole-k » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

kingcharles wrote: post #647

cole-k wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... Do you laugh with your friends about how one time you studied for two weeks and took the GED tests? There must have been some use in taking it for you, right? Otherwise, I guess I am missing the joke.

Only so that I could check the box on forms to say I had a High School Diploma/GED.

I think there must be a language difference between us, since I usually interpret "for the lulz" as meaning "without a [good] reason." Kudos to you for doing well on it.

The oddest reason I've ever heard for taking a standardized test was from a fellow who was an SAT tutor. He would take the test in order to covertly write down good math questions onto his calculator while the instructors weren't looking. He made a point of telling me that when you do this, you have to make sure you answer most questions incorrectly. He knew other tutors who took the tests, got perfect scores, and then were told they couldn't take it again. There was almost pride in his voice when he said to me (paraphrased), "If CollegeBoard sees a 30-year-old man acing the SAT, they're going to look at him funny if he tries to take it again. If they see a 30-year-old man bombing the SAT repeatedly, they're just going to think he's stupid."

Doing this is of course morally dubious, to put it nicely. But I still am amused by the whole thing. There's a degree of "sticking it to the man" both in pilfering question examples from CollegeBoard and lowering the curve by an infinitesimally small amount when he takes the exams.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#693

Post by KorematsuFredt » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #451

I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…

The mass universal education system was designed to control and brainwash masses. The massive "free and universal" education movement launched by US was meant for this sort of end games and I am not surprised at all.

Having said that as a priviledged parent I merely chuckle at this social justice wanking as my kid goes to a private school and is tutored by me. She will be more successful than the "equity" kids from California if eveyrthing else remains the same.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#694

Post by KorematsuFredt » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #502

userbinator wrote: post #451

I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…

What if you invert your thesis. Sooner doesn’t necessarily imply “higher standard”: 1 - American school teach the alphabet before grade 1, and push kids to read early. German schools don’t even teach the alphabet until grade 1' yet by the end of that year the reading level of the kids is the same as US kids at the end of grade 1, or better. German Pädagogin justify this by saying there is some neural development issu…

> kids who have parents who can afford tutors and such can push the kids through the prescribed steps sooner. Kids whose parents each have two jobs to get food on the table, well, they simply can’t. So the former define “higher standards” because they chose their parents well?

Yes. Kids born in rich families will do better, kids born to better parents will do better and that is a good thing. A lot of scientific research in early years did not come from government funded labs but rich people working on their passions. Note that privileged people will define "higher standards" always no matter what laws you pass and how you twist the public education system. But these sort of social justice solutions damage the very poor people who cant afford kumon.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#695

Post by userbinator » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

delusional wrote: post #601

userbinator wrote: post #451

I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…

Let's cut the bullshit and get straight to the heart here. Are black people, in your opinion, predisposed to be bad at math? If yes, then i guess your opinion is at least logically consistent. If no, then why are they (according to the article at least) underachieving? If black kids aren't being served by the current curriculum, then I think it's reasonable to assume that some white kids aren't either. I suggest that…

Regardless of which side of the race-intelligence debate you're on, this will only widen the inequality. If you want blacks to achieve more, you should be investing more in their education. Not making things easier for everyone because then they will just continue to underachieve while those who can afford private schooling and such continue to excel.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#696

Post by batter » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #638

batter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one thing - even if you're in private school you have to pay for both. For public via taxes and private from your own pocket. It sound more like double tax for smart kids - knowledge for rich only. And just to remind that school price can be on par with University.

I don't think that's particularly fair. We all pay into the basic social programs. I don't have children but I'm still paying into the public system and I don't believe I'm being unfairly taxed. To be able to afford to pay into the private school is a luxury.

So if you have smart kid but don't have money you won't be able to help him. Poor will be always poor :(

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#697

Post by panaffa » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

So monumentally stupid. I am a California kid and taking algebra in 7th grade was honestly a pivotal experience in my academic life. I got ny butt kicked for the first few exams and after getting a C- I was devastated. I cried a bit to my parents and teacher and resolved myself to grind super hard on the next test. I pretty much learned all the study habits I have now from that one exam and it was frankly a great learning experience. I definitely was capable of doing algebra at 7th grade and I think we should be accelerating student's learning in public school frankly I felt I wasted a few good years of my potential stuck in school.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#698

Post by dmitrygr » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

ryan93 wrote: post #674

dmitrygr wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggled with basketball in PE. The teacher said that maybe it just wasn't for me, and had me sit on the bench for the rest of the basketball unit. For some reason they didn’t force EVERYONE to sit for six weeks cause I couldn’t basketball. Now explain to me how math differs.

You could have been Lebron James if he didn’t bench you.

I couldn’t. And I recognize that. Maybe it is about time we recognized that not everyone is cut out for calculus either?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#699

Post by leereeves » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #685

leereeves wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you might ask the women of Afghanistan if they're happy about Americans recently deciding to avoid conflict there. Except they probably couldn't answer honestly, for fear of being killed by their new rulers.

Except that those are the old rules that USA failed to meaningfully change in their campaign of using up and ditching some equipment, so they can justify taking more of the taxpayers money to buy new equipment and skim a part of that money for themselves. Did America do anything positive there? Or did they just pause natural development of that country by 20 years, to organize their little vacation from Taliban? Rare…

> Last few decades of USA foreign policy show it more clearly than any reasonable person should require.

I think the last few decades of USA foreign policy show that meaningful change takes time - a long time. We're still protecting South Korea, Germany, and Japan. I would consider all of those successful exercises in "nation building" as once totalitarian nations have built stable democracies.

But in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we simply weren't willing to stay long enough to protect the new democracies from their enemies.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#700

Post by pclmulqdq » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #656

batter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one thing - even if you're in private school you have to pay for both. For public via taxes and private from your own pocket. It sound more like double tax for smart kids - knowledge for rich only. And just to remind that school price can be on par with University.

The problem here is economic disparity. If people can't afford to send their children to the school of their choosing, then it's a signal wages are too low. This also applies to public schools, you can be the smartest kid in certain inner cities, and you're unlikely to do well compared to an average kid in a higher income area. But even if we have unlimited funding for lower education, what's the purpose? The vast ma…

Arguably the point of public school was to develop all bright kids, not just the rich ones. Providing everyone a basic level of education is a very different goal, and I question whether a college-oriented curriculum is good for educating the masses.

The fact that my parents had to pay for both the public school and some tuition for private school (I had financial aid) left a really bad taste in my mouth. On top of that, full tuition at the private school was less than the per-student cost of public school! To me, that is ridiculous.