Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#691

Post by smnrchrds » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #656

sillysaurusx wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. Those countries may be New World, but anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. In other words, if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Reddit's running joke is that every gunfight happened in Brazil. In fact, I often wonder if most of the gunfigh…

> I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. What about Greenland? > ...anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. It's the same in the US, and basically every country in the world. Some places are dangerous, others aren't. > ...if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Put it undiplomaticall…

> What about Greenland?

It's not a country and it has a very low population (less than 60k). Small regions make bad statistical samples.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#692

Post by onemiketwelve » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #96

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

Seriously, I feel like recent history has shown so many flaws in the theory of guns protecting citizens from the government.

I remember during the tsarnaev brother's attacks the crazy amount of APCs and armored vehicles that were in the arsenal of just the police. What the fuck is 5.56 in the hands of some regular Joe going to do against even the lightest armor.

Not to mention the fact that it's not the fairytale tyrannical government vs the righteous citizenry. Turns out it can be subversive citizenry going up against other citizens.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#693

Post by betwixthewires » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

redstripe wrote: post #323

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

What's admirable about it? This is just a fiction that you Americans tell yourselves about the next revolution. Name one, just one way, that ease of gun ownership has protected Americans from their government in a way that citizens of other western democracies have suffered? There is no scenario in which any citizen with a gun in any country defeats their government. Your gun will keep you safe about as well as your…

> Name one, just one way...

The civil rights movement of the 1960s.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#694

Post by content_sesh » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #628

content_sesh wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left (both modern and not) is much less self-defense averse than you think. There's plenty of leftist gun clubs; the Socialist Rifle Association and Redneck Revolt, formerly John Brown Gun Club, come to mind immediately. There's also the long history of unions literally going to war against capitalists, like in the Battle of Matewan. Also worth remembering that leftist groups like the BPP encouraging its members…

Sure, without a doubt. Are there any major political parties on the left with pro-gun or not-anti-gun platforms though? I feel like the political parties of the left use fear of guns like the political parties of the right use fear of non-whites.

Depends on your definitions, right? What you describe sounds an awful lot like the Democratic party, but they're liberals, not leftists. I'd argue they're center-right.

From what I've seen at least, when more leftist parties like Green, DSA, the various communist parties, etc, talk about reducing gun violence it's in the context of eliminating poverty and other environmental contributors to the problem.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#695

Post by panopticon » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #673

panopticon wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So did our Deep State as they lost a twenty year fight against the Taliban. It takes a lot more than a Glock and a few boxes of ammunition from the sporting goods store to befuddle the US military. It takes fuel, food, medicine, training camps, and other infrastructure necessary to survive and fight back. You’re not going to get that in appreciable quantities in the middle of the US without Uncle Sam and several th…

> It takes a lot more than a Glock and a few boxes of ammunition from the sporting goods store to befuddle the US military Which is exactly why we resist laws that ban rifles. > You’re not going to get that in appreciable quantities in the middle of the US without Uncle Sam and several three letter agencies noticing. I don't think you fully grasp the extent to which the US population is armed.

> Which is exactly why we resist laws that ban rifles.

s/Glock/AR-15/, point still stands regardless of what common legal firearm you want to replace Glock with.

> I don't think you fully grasp the extent to which the US population is armed.

You have entirely missed the point. The existence of small arms is not what lead the Taliban to success against the US. They had billions of dollars from the opium trade, donations, and foreign aid. This money was not just spent to purchase weapons; it was used to fund training camps, fund recruiting operations, buy off politicians and local warlords, maintain supply lines, and the other infrastructure you need to wage war. These are the things the three letter agencies would take note of.

tl;dr: Small arms (in any quantity) are a small piece of what you would need to wage an effective insurgency against ol' Uncle Sam.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#696

Post by syntheticcorp » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #565

philwelch wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

Comparing the US to lawless, poor countries doesn't help make your claim. The more rational 'New World' comparisons would be Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and guess what: very low murder, very low rates of gun ownership. "Does this mean that France should adopt some aspects of Japanese law, for instance, by readopting the death penalty? Or does it simply mean that France and Japan are different countries?" Or mo…

New Zealand does not have a “very low” rate of gun ownership. It has ~ 26 firearms per 100 people, well short of the USAs 120 but still ranked 20th in the world.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#697

Post by betwixthewires » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #522

mmmpop wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were an officer of the law pressed to go door-to-door to say, purely hypothetically, take the oldest child by force to inscribe them in some dystopian military program, you'd probably be a lot more hesitant if you knew that there was a chance you'd get shot in the process right? I believe that's the security that us Americans (I imagine your sneer with that) feel by being armed. Isn't it that the Swiss are all…

There is a reason why you have to resort to "pure hypotheticals" and you should dwell on that.

Every authoritarian regime is a pure hypothetical until it is not. I believe that the US has not fallen to that, partly, because the population is armed to the teeth.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#698

Post by chuckee » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #96

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

A list of countries by homicide rate is useless in a gun-control discussion without comparing it to gun ownership rate.

This article presents a graph of gun homicides vs. gun ownership rate: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20121218141207-462880-in-case...

This one presents a graph of all homicides vs. gun ownership rate: https://zachmortensen.net/2013/01/10/gun-control-four-must-s...

> Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided.

So many failed foreign wars against poor countries, most recently Afghanistan, and all the lessons vanish from the mind when it comes to applying them at home.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#699

Post by LQexplanation » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

jdkee wrote: post #468

neonbones wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rate of shooting in the USA was always strange to me. I'm from Ukraine, one of the poorest countries in Europe, the country that on hybrid "civil war" with Russia help for the militia. There are many ex-militaries from volunteers who go to volunteer battalions. And many of them return with guns. But even with a state like that, you probably won't hear any gunshots in cities in your life. The first time I heard on…

"Anyway, I also can't understand how any gangs are still alive in the USA in our time. Even my shittiest country eliminated all of them in the 90s, so are Russia and other CIS countries. You can find many documentation films about that on youtube. There is almost nothing left except massive graveyards of dead criminals with funny grave tomb pictures like "sitting in my first Mercedes Benz with a gun, cool guy."" The…

Poland here - we also had issues with gangs and organised crime after collapse of communist government. It took few years for situation to stabilise, but then we got rid of gangs with legal system and police. So it looks a little bit weird that USA with older systems and democracy (not to mention better armed police) can't won with organised crime.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#700

Post by zepto » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #649

zepto wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and common advice by well known firearms experts is not to confront intruders, but to retreat to a known location, ideally upstairs and call the police. Only if the intruders seem like they are going to come up the stairs do you announce that you have a gun and that the police are on their way. The purpose of the gun is not to kill the intruders. It is to deter them from approaching you and your family, and make…

This advice is from lawyers who are looking to make your actions as legally defensible as possible. That isn't the same thing as maximizing your odds of surviving the crime. There's a reason every professional military trains soldiers to that their knee jerk reaction to a threat should be to attack it as violently as possible (with some nuances). Taking back initiative counts for a ton in an ambush situation.

If you have reason to believe that the home invaders are their with the purpose of killing you, you may be right.

The odds of that, vs just an armed burglary, are very small.