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Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

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Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#691

Post by mariodiana »

atq2119 wrote: post #609
majormajor wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be curious to see what that looks like today when elected Republicans are increasingly spouting what you'd call a "demonized" conservative viewpoint if it wasn't coming out of their mouths directly. "Those are just the opinions of a small fringe" was much more believable in a pre-Trump world - but now, even more than post-Tea Party, the fringe is pushing the agenda. And even pre-Trump, you can read that study…

That seems fair to me. If this reasoning is correct, then conservatives should be becoming worse at gauging liberals' position on social justice-related topics, considering how their reporting tends to be dominated by extremists as well.

What exactly seems fair? The reply you're responding to asserts there was a "violent fringe that was making the most noise and claiming the most airtime." Is that fair? The discussion, at the time, concerning gay marriage in conservative national media was dominated by a "violent fringe"? Were their calls for violence? Were there even suggestions that violence "may be necessary"?

I'm going to reach here a bit, but are we going to rope in the Westboro Baptist Church and pretend these people were the "conservative" response? Even if we do that, do you recall them—as odious as they are—being violent or advocating violence? And if we're not pointing to them, who are we pointing to?

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#692

Post by Impassionata »

reedjosh wrote: post #590
standardUser wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps your political viewpoints are fairly mild compared to mainstream conservative discourse? It's difficult to have civil discourse with someone who says your identify (or the identify of those you love) should be outlawed or otherwise severely restricted by the state. That's been a core tenet of conservative politics and policy for several years now and I do not have the intellectual tools nor the emotional stre…

I think a large bit of conservative viewpoint today is that the government shouldn't even be involved in marriage. I don't at all care what you do with your life, and really I'd like it if you gave me the same courtesy. But, if you believe that because I consider myself more conservative than not, I must then hate your lifestyle, how can we ever come to a happy coexistence?

> I think a large bit of conservative viewpoint today is that the government shouldn't even be involved in marriage.

How is it you think that your viewpoint connects to conservative viewpoints at large?

At some point you have to admit and understand: you aren't conservative. You aren't what most people think of when they think of conservatives.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#693

Post by myko »

prepend wrote: post #156
antiterra wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump’s positions included his belief that people should be able to be fired solely for being LGBT+. You know, like cancelled. So, people who are or care about LGBT+ share the information that Cawthon voted in a way that could harm them. That’s not ‘siccing a tiger’ for any disagreement whatsoever.

Trump was cancelled by the election, so that makes sense. People vote for lots of reasons so assuming that a voter supports every single issue is simplistic.

> Trump was cancelled by the election

Only if you believe mainstream media sources, if you step out of your bubble you will see that trump will be reinstated this August

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#694

Post by chromaton »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #171
chromaton wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gary on South Park. Of course, that was 18 years ago. There's also a few very minor Mormon characters on The Expanse.

The Mormon characters are minor, for sure, but their mission plays a huge plot role. The Nauvoo!

Yeah, there's also a lot of Mormon-themed artwork and symbolism on the Nauvoo as well.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#695

Post by whimsicalism »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #633
whimsicalism wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fox News has moderated a lot over the past few years I routinely read Fox News online. I do not think they have moderated over the last 2 years - there was perhaps some moderation 4 years ago, but no longer. CNN has swung leftward, I don't think MSNBC has substantially changed.

I think they mean the word "Moderated" not in the colloquial sense of removing content, but in the sense that they're opinions are not as strongly right-wing as they once were.

Yes, this is also the sense I meant it.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#696

Post by watwut »

vorpalhex wrote: post #583
watwut wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The middle between truth and lie is a lie. The middle between torture and fredom is less bad torture. I could continue, but that is the point.

"If you aren't for us, you are against us." This is a great tool for crusades and other holy wars. You can paint inconvenient bystanders who don't come over to your side as enemy combatants and justify attacking them. Also fantastic for reinforcing in-group identity, forcing group members to stay loyal or lose their entire friend group.

What does that have to do with what I said? Nothing.

Political center are not passive bystanders. They are people who are active in politics and either actively stop or actively push for real policies. That then affect how country operates.

It is set of ideologies as much as any other political group is. They make aliances or refuse to make them too.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#697

Post by throwaway894345 »

ABCLAW wrote: post #681
anm89 wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyway yeah, I'm a centrist and it's NOT because I'm trying to be neutral > You aren't being neutral. My claim is that I'm not neutral and that I'm also not trying to be neutral. >If your goal is to never be critiqued because you can't stand to be wrong, Speaking of strawmen.

It's a bit tough to understand how you reconcile this position with your original paragraph. >Attacking the center is always the craziest narrative to me. It's saying: not only is it not okay to disagree with me and be on the other side, it's also not okay to not passionately agree with my exact side. The only right way to view these complex issues is to sign your name to join my party and then hold the party line, a…

What's hard to understand? Picture a spectrum with three points labeled "left", "center", and "right" respectively. Each point is a "position", none of them are neutral (because they all exist on the spectrum).

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#698

Post by JAlexoid »

whimsicalism wrote: post #477
JAlexoid wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist is one of the least biased sources of news, that routinely publishes letters, opeds and articles contradicting the sated editorial agenda. Very few other news sources actually do that. They're not perfect, but it sure beats NYT. If you want the optimal news coverage without needing to read a million sources - The Economist, Financial Times, WSJ and The Guardian.

I read both the NYT and the Economist, they are quite different publications so not really comparable in my view. That said, the editorial stance of the Economist comes through extremely clearly in their writings and they are unabashedly economically liberal. Your characterization of NYT as being less ideologically diverse really doesn't match my experience. Your list is incredibly West focused and honestly not that…

> NYT as being less ideologically diverse

NYT has lost my subscription, after they just straight up started running exaggerated stories.

> Your list is incredibly West focused

I read in 4 languages, would you like some news sources in Russian, Lithuanian or Italian?

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#699

Post by crazygringo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #676
crazygringo wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you only read the English language then you're kind of mostly limited to "anglophone", no? And how can 4 "centrist" sources be "very biased"? Isn't it literally the opposite?

> And how can 4 "centrist" sources be "very biased"? Isn't it literally the opposite? No, centrism isn’t the opposite of bias. Centrism is a position toward which there can bias of any strength. Position of bias on a left/right (or any other ideological) axis and strength of bias or two orthogonal, continuous dimensions.

In theory, perhaps.

But in practice "centrist" news sources are far more likely to present multiple points of view -- e.g. a left and right one -- while "left" and "right" news sources generally do not.

But at a deeper level, centrism isn't really an ideology at all, in the way the left and right can be. You can be a hard-core leftist or you can be a hard-core conservative, but the idea of a "hard-core centrist" doesn't really exist.

So I'd argue centrism can be the opposite of bias in a very real way. It's about dropping bias towards ideologies, and treating issues in a practical balanced way.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#700

Post by myko »

Impassionata wrote: post #674
myko wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally psyched a crowd up into a fervor after months of lying and then they marched on the Capitol. His own people were sickened by his giddiness during the event. He was telling his VP to install him as POTUS and tweeted as much. The same guy has been telling folks he plans to be reinstated in August. You can lie to yourself about it but you're not going to get far lying to others.

Might get far enough: this entire thread is flagged.

Well, that's frustrating.
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