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Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

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Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#691

Post by _glsb »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #687
amasad wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a clone of Replit that we made work at Codecademy. I started working on Replit (or repl.it) back when I was a student in Jordan. I didn't have a laptop so every time I wanted to get some programming done I had to setup a development environment at the university or at work. The idea for Replit was when you needed a repl to do some coding you should easily get one from anywhere including a mobile device. I th…

Do you feel the same about Zoom's CEO and Jet.com's CEO?

Probably not, since they have more money and can’t be outlawyered like an intern could.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#692

Post by oliverx0 »

fleddr wrote: post #679

I naturally sympathize with underdogs and this seems a classic case of bullying and power abuse. That said, this trend where such disputes are made public including personal details continues to shock me. It must be my European perspective. In particular, just screen grabbing personal conversations and publishing them to the world without permission, with the person's full name, and then adding accusations...I find a…

I think the email chain actually reveals the extent to which the blogger tried to salvage the relationship and the project, and how he was acting in good faith. Explaining that this communication happened with the CEO of the company is actually an important detail that should not be left out.

I do however appreciate that one would expect private communications to remain private, but in this case I think it was warranted to include such details. Basically, I don't think there is generic approach toward revealing private communication, and it should be done on a case by case basis depending on how important the details of such conversations are.

EDIT: I would also point out that:

> "Furthermore, the victim (whom I fully believe to be a victim) just showed to the world how easily he doxes work relations, which doesn't look great for future employment.".

My impression after reading his blog post was actually the opposite, I would hire the blogger in heartbeat if I could.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#693

Post by alerighi »

smnrchrds wrote: post #344
codingdave wrote: post #111

> Naturally, I took down my project right away... So a CEO bullied you. He threatened to have lawyers look at something, accused you of behaving poorly, and accused you of being difficult. He is being manipulative. He is trying to guilt / scare you into stopping. And it worked. For all readers... do not be afraid of lawyers. Especially if nobody has even talked to them yet. Lawyers do not like to lose cases, so will…

Counterpoint: be afraid of lawyers. They may not be able to win s judgment against you, but they can easily bankrupt you. Remember the case where a man criticized Proctorio and was hit with a SLAPP lawsuit aimed to silence him. He ended up spending 100k on legal costs and the case is only beginning. He would have been bankrupt despite being 100% legally in the right. Fortunately for him, EFF decided to support him af…

I don't really know how the civil trial works in the US, but in my country you are not required to participate to the process and thus have a lawyer (while it's required for a penal trial). You can decide to not defend yourself, that doesn't means that the other party wins, but that you don't take part in the process, and thus it's only the accusation that can provide proofs and similar things, and then the judge decides.

In that case, I wouldn't even bother to try to defend myself, if he doesn't have any proof that something is copied as it seems, no way he will win. Worse case scenario and you are guilty, fine, you will have to take down your project? You will have to pay a compensation? How much can this be quantified? 100$? 1000$? I don't think more than that. And if you refuse to pay? They have to do another trial just to have your money. In the end, they will end up spending a lot of money and maybe in 10 years they hope to get something back (most probably nothing).

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#694

Post by kyawzazaw »

fleddr wrote: post #679

I naturally sympathize with underdogs and this seems a classic case of bullying and power abuse. That said, this trend where such disputes are made public including personal details continues to shock me. It must be my European perspective. In particular, just screen grabbing personal conversations and publishing them to the world without permission, with the person's full name, and then adding accusations...I find a…

Not personal details. It was relevant [professional] correspondence and you can see how professional the student was.

In contrast to the CEO, who said along the lines - we got a lot of money and we have lawyers.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#695

Post by whoisjuan »

amasad wrote: post #682
tommoor wrote: post #634

> we’re also excited to announce one of the first (of many!) projects that Amjad has worked on with us: Codecademy Labs, the easiest way to play with JavaScript, Ruby, and Python online I'll just leave this here so we can all bask in the insane hypocrisy of this entire episode. https://www.codecademy.com/resources/blog/amjad-joins-codeca... Edit: See Amjad's response below – seems Repl.it may have pre-dated this hiri…

That was a clone of Replit that we made work at Codecademy. I started working on Replit (or repl.it) back when I was a student in Jordan. I didn't have a laptop so every time I wanted to get some programming done I had to setup a development environment at the university or at work. The idea for Replit was when you needed a repl to do some coding you should easily get one from anywhere including a mobile device. I th…

Could you explain roughly what was the biggest tell that he copied Replit's architecture patterns? No need to go into details, but perhaps this would make your side of the story more clear.

So far we only have seen Radon's post and emails screenshots. He seems to be very adamant about not copying any of Replit's IP. But clearly every story has two sides and I think it's very important to hear yours. Hopefully it will come in the form of a blog post or similar.

Genuinely curious and not taking sides with anyone here. I just believe that the OSS community can learn from this.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#696

Post by White_Wolf »

tommoor wrote: post #634

> we’re also excited to announce one of the first (of many!) projects that Amjad has worked on with us: Codecademy Labs, the easiest way to play with JavaScript, Ruby, and Python online I'll just leave this here so we can all bask in the insane hypocrisy of this entire episode. https://www.codecademy.com/resources/blog/amjad-joins-codeca... Edit: See Amjad's response below – seems Repl.it may have pre-dated this hiri…

Maybe it's worth having a chat with the EFF guys. They might be interested in what is going on.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#697

Post by nonbirithm »

amasad wrote: post #682
tommoor wrote: post #634

> we’re also excited to announce one of the first (of many!) projects that Amjad has worked on with us: Codecademy Labs, the easiest way to play with JavaScript, Ruby, and Python online I'll just leave this here so we can all bask in the insane hypocrisy of this entire episode. https://www.codecademy.com/resources/blog/amjad-joins-codeca... Edit: See Amjad's response below – seems Repl.it may have pre-dated this hiri…

That was a clone of Replit that we made work at Codecademy. I started working on Replit (or repl.it) back when I was a student in Jordan. I didn't have a laptop so every time I wanted to get some programming done I had to setup a development environment at the university or at work. The idea for Replit was when you needed a repl to do some coding you should easily get one from anywhere including a mobile device. I th…

> there is some line that it's unethical to cross in copying a former employer's product

Depending on the severity of the offense and the circumstances this would make sense, but this was just a small project, not an entire VC-backed service. Would you be willing to provide concrete evidence to show that the intern was actually copying the specifics of your product? As it stands many of us are not convinced that this is the case. What are these "unique, invisible aspects" of Replit that you are referring to which are so integral to merit legal action from you? And do you believe it was justified against a project that was never even intended to be anything more than a hobbyist activity?

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#698

Post by sillysaurusx »

drusepth wrote: post #596
sillysaurusx wrote: post #78

Guys, I don’t know what this is about yet, but I know amjad (ceo). And I know that whatever is going on here, his intentions were pure. He’s proven himself to me that he’s pretty much the opposite of a sleezy corporate ceo who crushes intern side projects while twirling his mustache. I just wanted to encourage everybody to chill on it for a moment and wait to see what’s up, because my spidey senses are screaming “mis…

Uhhhh... side note: you only gave him 5 minutes to respond according to those timestamps. Going offline for a bit is probably a good idea if only for the passage of time; if I were him (especially in a time where shit is hitting the fan), I'd want to take some time to think things through before responding to anyone, even friends.

I had the exact same reaction, and even briefly panic'd that that might be the case. I saw some DMs come in, and I was like "he's going to give some reasonable explanation, isn't he?"

But those DMs were other people. I got silence. And I spent all day pondering what the hell had just happened.

You're right. This is the first time I've ever posted someone's DMs without their consent. And yet for the life of me, I can't bring myself to feel even slightly bad about it.

In that vein, I'll post here what I DM'ed him with five minutes ago. https://gist.github.com/shawwn/150f2711efc1d4a7821806ec23aeb...

I don't know whether he'll listen. And me making it public will make it even harder for him to listen.

But you know what? I felt the switch flip from "on" to "off" for "do I care whatsoever about repl.it?"

And that's sad. I was... just, such a huge fan. Still might end up one.

People usually feel like "yeah! fuck this dude! I hope X bad thing happens to them!" in situations where there's a lot of outrage. But all I feel is sorrow. I grew up on HN, and by extension YC's mission, since HN = YC was true from 2007 til ... 2015-ish, I think. That's around the time the cynical masses truly overwhelmed the YC founders, and they all fled off to Bookface. Who wouldn't? I've been curious about bookface not because of "oh look, a bunch of powerful people are here," but because "man, I bet so many interesting conversations happen there. I wonder what they're like."

pg and jessica forged YC's reputation by hand, from day one till now. It was not easy. And I hate that this incident has made me question whether I was falling for an intelligent rich person's selfish ploy this entire time, and all those words about earnestness (http://paulgraham.com/earnest.html) and niceness (http://paulgraham.com/mean.html) were just a siren's song for the young and the naive.

Thankfully, I know I'm not wrong about pg being genuine. he writes lisp. amsad writes js. :)

the only other thing I want to say is, I'm so sorry to Radon for casting so much suspicion, and making up completely crazy theories. You didn't do anything wrong. I was wrong.

Keep on building stuff, and everything will work out.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#699

Post by contravariant »

mindcrime wrote: post #640
tiltrus wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

amasad is a regular HN'er who's very active in all posts related to repl.it. Very immature behavior on Amjad's part. I'm considering pulling our corporations subscription and moving to Stackblitz now....

amasad is a regular HN'er who's very active in all posts related to repl.it. Until, curiously enough, today... My guess is, his "top lawyers" and other advisors gave him instructions which amounted to - in layman's terms - "Dude, STFU." Edit: disregard, he did show up and start commenting here.

A wise man knows when to remain silent.

Not that that's stopped Amjad from commenting anyway: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27428400.

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