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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#691

Post by nobody9999 »

im3w1l wrote: post #603
nobody9999 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What happens if the party in power next decides to attack religious organizations who congregate during that pandemic with the same type of concerted de-platforming? I didn't realize that Stripe's actions were due to a government order. Probably because they weren't. You're conflating a private organization's decisions with government action. If the government were to attempt do as you suggest, the courts would slap…

It has happened before and recently too, so it wouldn't be exactly be shocking. Sneaked in with other stuff, they told the banks to fuck with sellers of Tobacco, Porn and Drug paraphernalia. > Operation Choke Point was a 2013 initiative of the United States Department of Justice[1] which investigated banks in the United States and the business they did with firearm dealers, payday lenders, and other companies believe…

I said:

>If the government were to attempt do as you suggest, the courts would slap them down hard.

The issues around Operation Choke Point[0] that you linked to were investigated by Congress and the Department of Justice and, as I said, smacked down hard.

The above isn't analogous to the current situation, but the result was exactly as I said it would be.

Thanks for making my point for me.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#692

Post by pmiller2 »

nostromo wrote: post #669
pmiller2 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was trying to overturn the result of a democratically conducted election. You don't get to "both sides" this.

Democrats tried to disrupt the electoral college vote in 2016, and there were many faithless voters. They failed, but they tried. Not to mention four years of telling their base the election was stolen or hacked, followed by a pointless impeachment. This is the new norm. And both sides are indeed complicit and escalating.

You failed to mention that Clinton lost 5 electoral votes as a result of those shenanigans, while Trump lost 2. None of the faithless electors voted for the other major candidate. How does that constitute "Democrats" trying to overturn the election?

What's more, Clinton herself was not the one trying to supposedly "disrupt the electoral college vote." If you're going to make up a story, at least make it consistent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_electors_in_the_2016...

Edit: Also:

> “What the Committee did find however is very troubling. We found irrefutable evidence of Russian meddling.

https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2020/8/rubio-s...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#693

Post by heartbreak »

rglover wrote: post #330
brown9-2 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is those people are already radicalized, and if you give them what they want out of fear, then they’ve already won

I know some of them, and no, but they're getting there.

Your original post can be read as an indirect threat (don’t push them to the brink...or else). Why are you saying these things on behalf of a group of people that you’re not a member of?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#694

Post by gfodor »

rglover wrote: post #259

Maybe I'm being naive but it seems like a larger problem is being ignored here that I feel I should call attention to. This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists. Actions like these though seemingly harmless in the short-term are going to radicalize the exact person/type of people that you do not want to radicalize. Because a lot of high-ranking SV folks…

You are correct, I have been saying this for months/years. The reason this is escalating is for the same reason this always does: unwillingness to believe war is a possibility, then unwillingness to forgive until the suffering has gone on so long it is intolerable.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#695

Post by skybrian »

systemvoltage wrote: post #481
npunt wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about the 'invisible line' is astute. We're in a crisis of perception and reality right now, and this has caused many to lose sight of the very real lines that we have agreed upon to preserve society and democracy. I think the other important factor here is we are in a very vulnerable moment right now because we are in the midst of a transition of power. It takes time to transfer the apparatus and operatio…

I am also worried. It feels like Big Tech flourished in last 4 years with advertisement revenue while staying hush about these issues, but all of a sudden they have an epiphany now. Big Tech leaders are selfish, cowards, clueless and just as vulnerable as the government leaders. They were interested in milking billions in Ads from these hate speech, particularly Twitter. If I were employees at these big companies, I…

It doesn’t seem so hard to understand. The election and riot provided a big, obvious Schelling point, so everyone who isn’t a Trumpist knows that the time to act is now, because everyone else is moving now.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#696

Post by mavidser »

This isn't sitting well with me at all. Of course it had to be done, but I also think it's a scary precedent.

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I realize that the banned groups and people were really into extremism (to say it lightly), but there's also the fact that the Pandora's box has been opened, where huge private companies can remove figures and communities of an entire political spectrum - leaving them voiceless. And given the way political democracy swings, I am quite afraid of the time this starts happening to us.

Also, just to clarify: I'm thinking this from the POV of the non-violent conservatives who are seeing this as an attack on their politics, and who can then use this as a justification to block BLM/"antifa" protests for "peace" if they come back in power.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#697

Post by nmfisher »

npunt wrote: post #607
nmfisher wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying “don’t arrest and prosecute the people who invaded the Capitol”. This is about the campaign finance/social media account/etc of the current sitting POTUS. You don’t need to condone the actions of the Capitol terrorists to take issue with him being banned from every platform having committed no crime (or at least, not having been convicted of any crime). A few hundred people invaded the Capitol, but t…

Serious question: Would those people have been at the Capitol without Trump's 'Stop the Steal' rhetoric?

Maybe, I don't know. There was a group of people arrested in Michigan (?) for the kidnapping of the Governor (?), so it's possible.

But either way, I don't think it's relevant. If you want to boot someone off social media because they espouse a cause that others take too far, then there's a lot of BLM people who should receive the same fate. Anything else is rank hypocrisy.

It's worth adding that I think Trump is a puerile moron and "the election was stolen" people are loons (even the ones who didn't break into the Capitol or attend a protest). I'm not even an American, I have no dog in this fight.

But the double standard is so painfully clear, even from thousands of kilometres away. Applying these rules/bans/etc in such a blatantly partisan manner is only going to increase this divisiveness, the USA will tear itself apart from the inside.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#698

Post by gfodor »

sdwa wrote: post #389
rglover wrote: post #259

Maybe I'm being naive but it seems like a larger problem is being ignored here that I feel I should call attention to. This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists. Actions like these though seemingly harmless in the short-term are going to radicalize the exact person/type of people that you do not want to radicalize. Because a lot of high-ranking SV folks…

I don't agree with this at all and I am tired of seeing "sensible" people here explain how it's important to reach out to fascists and make them feel loved. You're only advocating further normalisation of fascism, and depriving them of the consequences of their actions—consequences that have always been a part of civil society. What's more, that you seem to be more preoccupied with not upsetting these fascists rather…

The people you refuse to reach out to by and large are not made up of fascists. And so we will get what always happens when this kind of mindset takes root en masse.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#699

Post by invisible »

nmfisher wrote: post #537
npunt wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, avoiding conflict in the short-term will only embolden those who create and thrive on conflict. For these types of people, their next move is usually to escalate. You see this with bullies, abusive relationships, rapists, serial killers, terrorists, etc. They learn what they can get away with, they like the power it gives them, and they try something more. Therefore, we can't make decisions based o…

Nobody is saying “don’t arrest and prosecute the people who invaded the Capitol”. This is about the campaign finance/social media account/etc of the current sitting POTUS. You don’t need to condone the actions of the Capitol terrorists to take issue with him being banned from every platform having committed no crime (or at least, not having been convicted of any crime). A few hundred people invaded the Capitol, but t…

> We’re leading Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes, and then late in the evening or early in the morning, boom, these explosions of and bullshit, and all of a sudden. All of a sudden it started to happen.

> Rudy, you did a great job. He’s got guts. You know what? He’s got guts, unlike a lot of people in the Republican party. He’s got guts, he fights. He fights, and I’ll tell you.

> We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us.

> We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

> I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

> It was going to be great. And now we’re out here fighting.

> I want to thank the more than 140 members of the House. Those are warriors. ... Where is Hillary? Where is she?

> But it used to be that they’d argue with me, I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight. I’d fight, they’d fight. ... What happened to Hunter? Where’s Hunter?

> Now that’s many, many times what it would take to overthrow the state. Just that one element. 400,000 ballots appeared from nowhere, right after the election. (Use of “overthrow the state.”)

> Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength. ... They want to indoctrinate your children.

> We did good. We got rid of the ISIS caliphate. ... In Wisconsin, corrupt Democrat run cities deployed more than 500 illegal unmanned, unsecured drop boxes, which collected a minimum of 91,000 unlawful votes.

> When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do.

> Looking out at all the amazing patriots here today, I have never been more confident in our nation’s future.

> So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

- POTUS Trump

That’s only part of the stuff he said during the speech immediately before they marched, at his direction, to the Capitol building. He mentioned being peaceful once in his speech. Most of the undertones of the speech were about fighting/being strong for their way of life and belief in him being the rightful winner.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#700

Post by ngcazz »

rayiner wrote: post #634
systemvoltage wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defense, I agree with you that this is a first time when global internet connectivity + social media + hatespeech cocktail has become poisonous to our societal health. We need to deeply think about all this - allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project) while condemning hate speech, violence, white supremacy and other racist behavior. "He who fights with monste…

> We need to deeply think about all this - allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project) while condemning hate speech, violence, white supremacy and other racist behavior. But that’s the problem. Nobody trusts people in Silicon Valley or New York City to decide what those things are. These are people who have internalized ideas like “you can’t be racist against white peo…

Black people getting lynched and yet the violent radical is Angela Davis. Right.
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