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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#691
post #471
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve been shifting the Overton window for years. Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. Are for a pro worker visa policy and tariffs on imports? Then you’re a nationalist (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Are for the right to bear arms? Then you’re an uneducated hillbilly. Are for churches and other religious institutions to decid…

> Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Find me one Democrat with actual power advocating for open borders. And it's not as if the speech used by xenophobes is free of racial overtones and dogwhistles, either. > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. If you are against a woman's right to do what they please to their own body, you have to give compelling evidence for why. There is no such evidence.…

... a word that historically was used by people who started a lot of wars...

That's us. USA starts lots of wars. We've still got, what, seven going right now? Maybe it's down to six? (Ummm... Iraq Afghanistan Syria Yemen Korea Palestine Iran well that's at least seven but I'm probably missing multiple wars in Africa...)

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#692
Thank you Twitter.

Not for virtue signaling by deleting the President’s Twitter account in his final days in office. (If he is so bad what took so long?)

No, thank you for demonstrating to the American public the value of decentralized and open platforms.

The powers that be would have been better served if this never happened.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#693
post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#694
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. Well these last two seem pretty par for the course for illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate. At a certain point the line of absurdity has been crossed at it is not the duty of society to constantly debunk illegitimate claims. > The other side keeps deplatforming them In this particular case, Parler has been host to a num…

Have you read the actual lawsuits which were filed? You are aware the "60 lawsuits being dismissed" is a lie right? Trump campaign only filed 5 lawsuits. The Georgia lawsuit still hasn't even had a judge assigned even though it was filed on December 4th. The TX lawsuit to the SCOTUS - they refused to even hear it. So how exactly can you say "illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate"? Thousands of dead people,…

Saying the Trump Campaign only filed five suit begs to split hairs. Many of the suits haven't technically included Trump personally, or his campaign entity, as a party. However, they seek precisely the same results, and recycle many of claims in suits he has filed in his own name.

Example: The Texas motion to the Supreme Court to bring a case against Pennsylvania and other battleground states did not include Trump or his campaign as a plaintiff. Trump did, however, seek permission to join the lawsuit. That was doubly odd, considering the reason the states thought they could go directly to the top court was its "original jurisdiction" for suits between states.

Either way, does the defeat of the states' petition to the Supreme Court count toward the number of suits lost?

I believe the source for "more than fifty lawsuits" is Marc Elias, an admittedly left-leaning lawyer who's been keeping track. You might prefer to cast off his conclusion based on who he bats for. But you could also search for him and find his list.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#695
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you checking books for? Run experiments. Don’t go to your books about dropping weights off Pisa, just _drop weights off Pisa_. I don’t care what people are certain of: either those weights fall independently of their mass or don’t. If you are treating it like philosophy instead of science, you’ve already lost the thread.

Gravity is NOT controversial and Political Science is all about philosophy.

Gravity isn’t particularly controversial these days, no. Many things that aren’t now, though—like the curvature of earth, or heliocentricity—once were; that a topic is controversial doesn’t mean there’s no right answer.

And I would agree that political science is largely concerned with philosophy, but let’s not mistake any old politicized belief as fitting under the umbrella of “political science”: that e.g. a manual recount renders any conspiracies about an automatic ballot-counting machine irrelevant to a final vote tally is a matter of common sense, not profound debate—and yet this has proved a controversial point these last few weeks.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#696
post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

> Their legal cases are rejected.

Because their claims are held up to the law and don't pass muster.

> The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously.

Some particular popular outlets are allied with them, the rest of the major media takes them quite seriously (it often investigated their claims and finds them unsupported, but that's not failing to take them seriously.)

> We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're ists if they disagree.

No, we’re listening to them. The rest of us aren’t agreeing* with them. (On the other hand, this is more literally true in the opposite direction.)

> We're not debating anymore.

You can only debate from a certain degree of shared basis, which does not exist.

> We just assume we're right.

On the issues of objective, verifiable fact, this is a conclusion not an assumption. On the matters of fundamental moral values, beliefs on those issues have a fundamentally axiomatic nature: there is no debating them.

On the other hand, this claim is, again, more true in reverse (especially on the issues of verifiable objective fact.)

> We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate,

Or they are excluding the rest of society from their debate.

> and they are powerless to stop it.

They are not powerless to stop disengaging or engaging only in bad faith. Well, I mean many of them individually probably psychologically are powerless to do so, especially while those they take their cues from are doing so, but as a collective group they are not.

> Is it surprising that they are furious about it, and explode in unpredictable ways?

What unpredictable ways? Most of their explosions are publicly telegraphed quite specifically, and have a direction that has been publicly requested by the public figures that they overtly venerate.

It's not chaotic, unpredictable explosions of impotent rage of the factually disenfranchised, it's strategic, directed action at the behest of some of the most privileged segments of society, with the masses directed using mechanisms that are textbook features of cults.

I mean, if you are talking about the Tes Party/Trump/Q/alt-right/etc. group.

If you are talking about the people considered about the lack of accountability for murder of people of their race, actually, barring a partial shift that happened well into the paroxysm of protest over the last year, yeah, you are mostly exactly correct (though the nondisputable nature of fundamental moral principals is an issue there, too.)

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in a place to practice google-fu, but if I'm remembering correctly, wasn't the Texas lawsuit not heard by the USSC because they didn't follow the protocol necessary to have a case heard by the USSC?

> because they didn't follow the protocol necessary Texas followed the protocol, which included filing a motion for leave to file a bill of complaint in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court, however denied the motion. https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/do... https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/121120zr_p86...

Interesting, I thought all appeals to the USSC required moving through the federal court system first.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#698
post #153
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. Well these last two seem pretty par for the course for illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate. At a certain point the line of absurdity has been crossed at it is not the duty of society to constantly debunk illegitimate claims. > The other side keeps deplatforming them In this particular case, Parler has been host to a num…

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

I recommend reading a history book of any country. It's unfortunately been proven to be plausible over and over...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming isn’t censorship, it is publishers saying they find said speech to be garbage. I don’t typically stop arguing someone because I have convinced them of my view but because I guess further interaction with them on the topic is a waste of energy. I am confident in all my arguments but a lot of people are too dumb and too emotional to be worth debating. And in the group context, arguing without moderation h…

That is censorship. Prior to this point in time only hate speech, inciteful, vulgar, things were censored. To remove speech from the view of others that is contrary to your own simply because you believe it is "garbage" is censorship. Perhaps the other side believes your speech should be censored. Let's have your comment removed because of your generalization of speech you don't like as "garbage" doesn't conform with…

Stop using someone else's services for your expression. Just imagine you are in Walmart or a Target or your local grocery store. You don't have a right to be there or to engage in any speech or really anything else if the manager wants you removed from private property. If you want to nationalize Twitter and Facebook be my guest but until then the owners of said private property can continue to kick people off of it. I still have yet to see one case where a person's right to free speech were somehow infringed upon.
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