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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#691

Post by the_af »

snazz wrote: post #266
Toutouxc wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you really pay that much extra for an Apple machine, especially for the M1 ones. I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. So basically, if you can't afford a MacBook today, you won't be able to afford a comparable high-end ARM offering from, say, Dell.

One big difference is that MacBooks (and Apple products in general) retain their value far better than any other computer brand. If you're looking at the used market to save money, a Dell looks way cheaper because it's depreciated far more than the Apple machine.

To be honest, I've never ever resold a laptop. Ever. I end up giving old laptops to friends or family who can't afford a new one. So resale price is a non-issue to me.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#692

Post by rmrfrmrf »

kag0 wrote: post #630
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #615

Patrick Moorhead is a stock analyst for the chip industry. In Wall Street terms, he is aligned with Intel others who are shaking in their boots right now. He's not going to say that the M1 is great until Intel/NVidia/etc. allow him to. These pundits know which side of his bread is buttered. He knows that his clients were caught off-guard by the M1 announcement. He needs to give his clients enough time to sell their I…

I agree in general, but is this really true? > the legacy chip makers have a business model that doesn't work It seems like this implicitly assumes that everyone switching to Apple silicon is a possibility. But it doesn't seem likely that all the android users are going to switch to iphones or that all the windows/linux users are going to switch to macs. This is hugely embarrassing for Intel and Qualcomm in particula…

I think it has less to do with everyone switching to Apple silicon and more to do with the clarification of viable business models: you either become an IP company and outsource production (AMD) or you go completely vertical and design and produce custom-designed SoCs to be used exclusively in your consumer products (Apple). The Intel model of designing and producing all-purpose commodity CPUs seems to have hit a wall due to both lack of demand and unanticipated manufacturing problems.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#693

Post by culopatin »

Shivetya wrote: post #459
klelatti wrote: post #385

The discussion seems to have settled down to "M1 is great! But you'll soon be able to get a Zen 3 CPU that's just as good." Which may or may not be true, but: - Apple has a material (and apparently perceptible) performance advantage against the majority of the laptop market - which will do wonders both for their and Arm's brand. - The M1 has killed the idea (which I've heard a lot) that you can't get performance out…

Well that big impact will only materialize if Apple can convince developers to make apps for this platform, something they have not been doing well as it is. (with intel offerings) They need to stop ceding the desktop game market to windows/amd/intel. When Catalina dropped it remove a lot of software, productivity, utility, and games, had many examples where they no longer ran. Worse some developers just wrote off th…

I wish I was a more knowledgeable developer because I see an enormous opportunity to fill those gaps.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#694

Post by coldtea »

andrewprock wrote: post #578
coldtea wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The published benchmarks are mostly "meh" when it comes to anything at the prosumer level and above. Which makes sense, since those are the lower-speced Mac machines (Mini, Air, 13" Pro). At the level at which they compete (similarly speced Intel Mac sold until recently, Surface machines, PC laptops of the same price) they obliterate them. "meh at the prosumer level" for a consumer level machine is kinda like sayin…

If the 13" Macbook Pro is not for Professional work, then I guess that makes sense.

The Pro in MacBookPro is a brand name, not a product category.

It means "it's intented/speced/priced for above the casual home user / casual student".

It doesn't mean "it's for cpu/gpu hungry IT/video/rendering/data crunching/etc work".

A banker, a VC, an accountant, a small shop owner, a graphic designer, a web UI developer, a dentist, and so on and so forth, are also professionals.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#695

Post by the_af »

Toutouxc wrote: post #229
the_af wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can get it to run Linux not on a VM, but natively and without coexisting with macOS at all, then it'll be good enough for me!... ...except I cannot afford a macbook. The one I'm using now was paid for by my employer. More generally, I'd love to see fast ARM platforms not built by Apple.

I don't think you really pay that much extra for an Apple machine, especially for the M1 ones. I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. So basically, if you can't afford a MacBook today, you won't be able to afford a comparable high-end ARM offering from, say, Dell.

I honestly don't know about the M1's, but I've never liked the price/specs ratio of Intel macbooks. While it's true their build is solid and they look good, they always seemed overpriced to me regarding specs.

And even the build quality... a friend who's an Apple fan used to tell me "they are better quality, they have less problems" yet his macbooks seem to break down at about the same rate as my Dell, HP or Lenovo laptops, so...

I've decided macbooks look good, have good quality screens and the best touchpads. I'm unwilling to pay a premium for that, and I don't even like OS X/macOS...

> I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost.

Possibly! I wouldn't buy them when they are the latest new thing, either.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#697

Post by shawnz »

coldtea wrote: post #600
Apocryphon wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the iPhone and iPod, it's a revolutionary entrant from the consumer point of view in terms of user experience. And like the iPhone and iPod, from a technical point of view, it's merely a very competent iteration down a natural evolutionary pathway, in a preexisting product type.

And like the iPhone and iPod it has very real innovations (in engineering) that people always underplay because "No wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame!", or "we had smartphones before, I had some Ericsson/Nokia/MS gizmo, so what's evolutionary about the iPhone?".

Ted Nelson: "It's possible to insist that every change is merely a small difference in degree if you do not want to see a change in kind"

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#698

Post by the_af »

ogre_codes wrote: post #260
the_af wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to believe. If we can end up with superfast, supercool ARM-based Linux laptops, that'd be a huge deal :)

Someone needs to spend the time/ money to design this M1 killer CPU. There is very little money in delivering powerful Linux laptops. ARM based Linux server CPUs? Very likely. Low end/ Chromebook style laptop ARM CPUs, Already exist. Performant ARM CPUs designed for laptops? I expect you just gotta hope Windows on ARM takes off or start porting Linux to M1 Macs.

> Performant ARM CPUs designed for laptops? I expect you just gotta hope Windows on ARM takes off or start porting Linux to M1 Macs.

What makes you think Windows won't take off on ARM?

In any case, if it can be done -- i.e. if there aren't locked down specs -- you can bet Linux will be ported to M1 Macs.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#700

Post by the_af »

ekianjo wrote: post #212
the_af wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to believe. If we can end up with superfast, supercool ARM-based Linux laptops, that'd be a huge deal :)

But that won't happen unless there's a Windows ARM build that does everything that Windows does in x86: the market for Linux-only laptops is pretty small.

What makes you think, if ARM becomes the hot new target, that there won't be a Windows ARM laptop?
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