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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#691

Post by bjustin »

shreyansj wrote: post #337
ghufran_syed wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think it would be better under a different political leader? I think it’s great that you’re still such an optimist

Different political leader - we don't know. A different political leader who was not divisive and dismissive of science - yes, it would have been better.

I do think more or less any other leader likely would have done at least a little better. But if the same events in late 2019/early 2020 had happened under President Obama in 2015/2016 instead, I think it likely that many people in the opposing party would have ended up taking the same anti-science positions we see now. Federal action would have made the pandemic less bad but individuals and other levels of government could still have caused problems.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#692

Post by rayiner »

shreyansj wrote: post #633
thatguy0900 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could that possibly have happened? Food needs to be planted, harvested(in many situations primarily by migratory workers from other countries) and delivered, power needs to be kept up, necessary medical supplies needs manufactoring, water needs to be cleaned and delivered. There's no scenario where the world gets to collectively take a break

Right, but the world could have refrained from partying on the beaches [1] [1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/07/16/vacati...

Did beaches make a difference? They did that in Florida during spring break in March, but Florida has low cases until just recently.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#693

Post by matz1 »

burner831234 wrote: post #647
matz1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only 140k died (0.04%) and with now with the death rate that is going down, its a good news, even more reason to reopen as soon as possible.

Amazing for someone to write off 140k deaths. Only 58,000 died in Vietnam. Thats literally in and out of "theaters of war". 1900 died in the Gulf war and those are ppl who "signed up for it". So, only 140k died. Callous AF.

Because its not worth it to make millions other people suffer due to lockdown.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#694

Post by samatman »

rayiner wrote: post #689
samatman wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to have worked for New Zealand, though notably, not anywhere else, even Australia. So you can argue that it was infeasible, and I would have to agree with you. But you can't argue it was impossible.

Island.

Yes, exactly.

But Australia is also an island, in the relevant sense for this discussion, and didn't succeed in eradication.

Hawaii also had considerable success, albeit recently undermined. Much to my chagrin, since I live here.

My conclusion is that eradicating this virus is very difficult, even with all the advantages.

But again, not impossible.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#695

Post by gowld »

rayiner wrote: post #687
jacksnipe wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lives are only lost in a lockdown scenario because of god awful policy. Pay people to stay home. Feed the poor.

How do you think food gets made and distributed?

See way it is now, by essential workers wearing masks. Not by packing halls with protesters holding coughing parties.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#696

Post by rayiner »

selectodude wrote: post #640
jedberg wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. Except that they are all now on downward trajectories while being more open (as opposed to the US, which is on an upward trajectory). Travel is allowed in Europe. Schools are open. Bars are open. And they are still on a downward trajectory.

And furthermore, there are locations in the United States that have handled the virus pretty well and are powerless to stop people from coming up there and messing it all up. “Mike, from Old Town, who did not want to share his last name, ordered a vodka Red Bull before getting back in line with friends at Old Crow Smokehouse’s curbside bar. He had just gotten back from a vacation in Dallas, Texas, with a friend, wher…

The one national level thing Trump could and should have done, but didn’t, is ban international and interstate travel.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#697

Post by gowld »

lostapathy wrote: post #630
jacksnipe wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lives are only lost in a lockdown scenario because of god awful policy. Pay people to stay home. Feed the poor.

That only works when we have food to feed everyone ... which requires a surprising amount of people to stay at work. Besides the obvious people working in the fields/farms, there's a lot of support businesses that need to stay open. The people who repairs the tractors, the people who make parts for the feeders in the barns, etc, which need support for their own manufacturing equipment. We can't just "shut it all down…

No one is saying to shut down essential workers. Just to push pause on the silly luxuries we've come to expect.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#698

Post by isthispermanent »

sfteus wrote: post #648
isthispermanent wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. All sorts of problems with that Statista chart. Just for starters it doesn't take into account number of tests being performed per 1m/pp. 2. Would it be astronomical? Total speculation. That's just a hysterical statement that doesn't point to a problem or a solution. There is some anecdotal evidence that a small fraction of those that develop symptoms but do not become fatal can have lasting effects from the virus…

1) Chile, Kuwait, and Singapore have similar rates of testing to the US [1] 2) Current studies show roughly somewhere between 10-20% of hospitalized patients ending up with heart damage, increasing their future risks of heart attacks and strokes.[2][3] Up to 36% of hospitalized patients are displaying neurological symptoms, with possible damage.[4] Up to 60% are ending up with ARDS which may be permanent.[5] Extracti…

Tests per 1mm/pop: US - 140k Chile - 71k Kuwait - 106k Singapore - 172k (most definitely not a 2nd or 3rd world country. HDI 7th in the world and GDP/pc 8th in the world. Both higher than the U.S.)

src: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You're stacking your numbers and assuming a worst and numerically impossible scenario. When you take into account asymptomatic cases that are extrapolated via serology samples and not just the positive PCR tests you get a fatality rate of 0.24% (and falling) with a huge age gradient down to less than 0.008% for those under 40.

At most it's 1%. That is the highest of any estimate I've seen. Here are a few dozen https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2

Knowing that the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic dramatically lowers the scary numbers you just threw out. And you must know by now the prevalence of asymptomatic cases.

Also [5] has a sample size of 36 from May, can't tell if it's peer reviewed.

[6] is a mish-mash of CDC numbers so not sure what you're pointing to.

[2] Though worth noting, I don't think 19.7% is indicative of anything out of the range of ordinary when you consider the at-risk group for covid. You would need to control this by age and all-cause mortality. Same for [4] and [5]

The question of "with" vs "from" covid is very real. Now, I'm not saying that covid is benign. It can do damage. What I'm saying that it is significantly less dangerous than people that want to remain in lock down would lead you to believe.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#699

Post by antepodius »

clairity wrote: post #241
antepodius wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Withdrawing and becoming independent from state systems isn't giving up; it's probably a first step towards a more organic, liberated society.

the action can have a variety of impetuses, but @eaandkw literally stated they're giving up.

Giving up on one approach vetsus another, because the incentive balance has shifted. From a consequentalist point of view, the impetus is secondary- if you think people would be better off being less reliant on the state, then any time they take actions towards that, it's good.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#700

Post by tremon »

dhosek wrote: post #449
spideymans wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States government is completely and utterly dysfunctional when it comes to serving the needs of its citizens. The government rarely goes out of its way to help its citizens, and the rare times it does something to help, it does so incredibly begrudgingly, intentionally making the process as painful as possible. The pandemic payouts are a wonderful example of the government going out of its way to make help…

This is entirely at the feet of the Republican party. They're the ones who have declared states are on their own and have suggested (and this is not a joke) that the next round of "relief" must include a capital gains holiday. There have been missteps from the left, but the Democrats overall approach has been to serve the needs of citizens in general while the Republicans have been eager to continue their program of…

As long as you keep framing your country's problems in terms of D vs R, things will not improve.
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