Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#691

Post by chasing » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #325

chasing wrote: post #211

What he said was stupid and disgusting. People sometimes over-estimate the amount of latitude the organization they work for will give them to do this. The technology industry is taking baby-steps towards actual inclusivity and diversity of thought -- and not this dumbass "I want to be free to say stupid offensive shit with impunity" flavor of "inclusivity" that people around here seem to champion. That is a Good Thi…

If your "inclusivity" stops at Stallman, it seriously lacks performance. You use the wrong word. What you desire is conformity. edit: Additionally, because I think this isn't obvious here, Stallman opened up the knowledge about software to the whole world and put energy in keeping it that way. Anyone was able to profit from this.

> What you desire is conformity.

Inasmuch as any organization must have a set of goals and principles that everyone within that organization must adhere to: Yes!

No one has taken away Stallman’s freedom of speech.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#692

Post by jaxbot » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #652

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

It also wasn't in isolation; he made very similar remarks in 2006 on his blog that he got flak for, but people mostly brushed aside as 'oh, Stallman..'

Comments here seem to mostly equate this situation to a Cancel Culture outcry over an isolated remark. That's not what happened here. rms has had decades of inexcusable behavior for any individual, much less someone affiliated with MIT and heading something as large as FSF. He had to answer for this eventually.

I sincerely appreciate his contributions to this world. But I also sincerely feel that we can't give people free passes for their behavior (see: courtesy cards at conferences) just because they've done well in other respects. We need to end the acceptance of Brilliant Jerks.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#693

Post by colechristensen » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

lostjohnny wrote: post #684

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. That's not what happened.

RMS defending his friend was happening

Minsky was accused, and those are the details.

It doesn't matter if it didn't happen, RMS was defending Minsky in the situation that it did by saying the girl who was less than a quarter of his age would have appeared willing.

That gets you fired. Even if it is entirely hypothetical.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#694

Post by CathedralBorrow » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

norswap wrote: post #42

Donald wrote: post #2

Context: RMS waded into the MIT Epstein scandal https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21... > I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation.

People: go read his email and make up your own mind about whether the punishment is proportionate to the crime. (And take a few minutes to be appalled at the quality of the arguments for that particular witch hunt.)

Good point. I read the entire email thread and find the consequences entirely predictable, acceptable and proportionate to his actions.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#695

Post by enriquto » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

How can we help him? Does joining the FSF (or donating) serve any purpose for that?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#696

Post by lanevorockz » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #510

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

> I wish somebody would have simply advised him not to speak on such matters because nothing good could become of it. Maybe he needed a PR manager. That sounds awful, but apparently this is what the world wants: carefully filtered speech that doesn't stray far from what people already agree with. The world needs everyone to speak about every topic. If we all self censor then only the extremists will be speaking.

Wise worlds, extremism is rising because of Cancel Culture. People might not speak but they will certainly act.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#697

Post by syrrim » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

He disagreed with the wording "assault" which he felt was ambiguous. He would almost certainly have been fine with the wording "had sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island". I'm sure a number of other wordings that call into question said girl's consent, the legal status of said girl on said private island with regards to sex, and so on would have been fine as well.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#698

Post by base698 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

lostjohnny wrote: post #684

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. That's not what happened.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#699

Post by Guthur » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Anyone who has actually read the email thread and considers it a defence of sexual assault, the topic of the thread, is as intellectually bankrupt as the media witch hunts rms was warning about and fell victim to.

We should be all concerned that media witch hunts like this can in act such results. It is abhorrent that any discussion that triggers a progressive dominated media can destroy people's lives.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#700

Post by elboru » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I recently deleted all my “controversial” tweets (about 3 or 2). I just don’t share the same opinion than the majority in a couple of topics. I never got into any kind of trouble because of that, my tweets were far from inflammatory, but after reading so many stories of people losing their jobs after someone found an old tweet, I couldn’t risk it, I just can’t risk my family’s stability just for expressing an opinion.