Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#691

Post by HyperTalk2 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:31 AM UTC

blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

What's wrong with hate, exactly? Last I checked, hate is the emotion that one experiences in response to the realization that someone else is doing horrible things to them or the people they love. This then compels one to protect themselves and those they love from the hated individuals, which is good.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#692

Post by austhrow743 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:32 AM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #685

austhrow743 wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? Yes. If the speech isn't terrible it doesn't really need advocating for or protecting does it? Arguing for free speech is inextricably linked to arguing for people to be able to say despicable things.

So by this logic, filtering spam is violating freedom of speech?

You don't need to listen to the terrible things they're saying.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#693

Post by makomk » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:35 AM UTC

onyva wrote: post #495

Twitter and Google (& YouTube) have systematically removed ISIS content and redirected these people to messages/sites that are designed to disrupt and deprogram their ideology. They’ve done this effectively for years. They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1158032847560675328

CloudFlare - the service we're talking about here - have consistently chosen not to remove ISIS content. They have taken a very clear stance that is the exact opposite of the one you're describing.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#694

Post by bubblewrap » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:35 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #667

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

Sure, they are free to operate as they please. And people are free to dislike the way they operate.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#695

Post by king_magic » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:36 AM UTC

nopcode wrote: post #675

IanCal wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provide electricity, or your phone provider cut off service or what not. I think it's key that in this case cloudflare are actively between you and 8chan. The phone provider is the most reasonable comparison, were you able to switch provider. I wouldn't be hugely shocked if…

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? Getting insight into the state of mind of such an individual seems valuable, no?

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? It should be blindingly obvious: when they spread extremism and terrorism like a virus, there’s plenty wrong.

It might make the tiniest bit of sense if we were collectively able to do something preventative about mass murders before they happened by using that “insight”. That certainly does not seem to be happening.

No, I think the time is coming where white supremacist manifestos and the like should be actively stamped out by society.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#696

Post by huffmsa » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

So rather than quietly update their language to allow for better analysis and detection of malignant content by 3rd parties, they're pushing the problem into the darker corners of the internet.

Not a great plan.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#697

Post by nikolay » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:48 AM UTC

I am disappointed by Cloudflare. They are involving themselves in politics like any other company. Let authorities do their job, don't jump in and get involved. Please!

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#698

Post by goatinaboat » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:49 AM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #262

sagichmal wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is disingenuous to describe white supremacy as "an unpopular opinion".

It's certainly not an unpopular opinion at all.

On Twitter “white supremacist” is synonymous with “white person”.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#699

Post by mieseratte » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:51 AM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #678

cryptica wrote: post #655

It's concerning that Cloudflare is monetizing on these disasters by publishing this article and promoting it on HN; in a way, they're using these crimes as an opportunity to improve their brand image. Cloudflare should have dealt with this privately; this matter is between Cloudflare and 8chan - They were always able to choose who they want and don't want to do business with. They were very happy to take the money wh…

There have been many vocal calls for cloudfare to drop 8chan. This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure.

Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#700

Post by jorams » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:53 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #667

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated.

How often does that happen in countries where squatting itself is not illegal?