GitHub forced a company off their platform for using the word "retard" to mean delay/hold back in signals processing context.
What a time to be alive.
Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
691–700 of 789 posts
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#692Earlier quoted context omitted.
This transcript shows Patreons malintent rather than alleviate our concerns with it, because they cut out essential context and in Matt Christiansens call with Patreon they admit the real cause was that they don't like his brand [1]. I challenge you to find racism and anti-semitic content on his channel. Transcript: "exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with y'all", the last wo…
Hmm, you seem to be right. I guess even more context was necessary here.
NYT should have done this research instead of providing an ideologically tilted coverage. I want my newspaper back from the ideologues.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#693I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…
On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? When society gets to a point that it decides internet access is a basic necessity, and not a luxury that can be shut off by a company when a random middle manager decides. To use your example, DS is a terrible thing. But its electric provider will never shut off its juice for being too controversial. Its water will…
All those examples are far simpler in their structure than the internet though. Because so far I've not seen anyone actually banned from the internet. I've seen people banned from private websites, I've seen people banned from fund-raising platforms, I've even seen people banned from hosting companies but none of those are analogous to having your taps turned off.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personification makes sense to me, at least in regards to Patreon. But then you get to Youtube...a stroll through the comment section of any video makes you realize you're in the digital version of Mos Eisley. There is no brand to protect, yet they wave their censorship wand quite often, including just this last week ( https://www.businessinsider.com/r-youtube-under-pressure-for... ). It seems a lot of these videos w…
We are talking about the same Patreon that is host to a tremendous amount of porn and fetish artists, right? Many of whom are in the top 50 of creators? Personfication suddenly matters now?
Thanks, I didn't realise this. Maybe one more sign that sexual fetish has largely stopped being taboo.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#695Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. People keep saying this and repeating it, but as far as I can tell this meme is destructive and wrong. Freedom of speech isn't just a legal assurance that congress shall make no law abridging it. It is also a set of cultural norms rooted deeply in a long lineage of hard won ideas. It is Evelyn Hall's principle "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the de…
These "norms" are generalized and not always applicable to real life. If I disapprove of you yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, should I also have to defend your right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater? We "erode freedom of speech" when it hurts people. This is not about "weird people with quirky ideas". This is about people who use speech to abuse, cause harm, intimidate, harass, or inspire others to commit su…
Except that in modern culture people tend to call anything they disagree with "abuse", like using a wrong pronoun or not supporting feminism enough.
I want to live in a world where anyone is free to say any stupid idea they want, and anyone else is free to correct them or ignore them or do whatever they like.
Actual harm/abuse/harassment should be illegal of course, like the kind where a person is physically doing stuff to another person against their will.
But if blocking a person on twitter is all it takes to avoid "harassment", maybe that's the best way to deal with that.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#696Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry: NO. If someone is murdered the murderer is responsible, not the person who wrote abusive lyrics or twitter comments. On the other hand, if you shout "fire" in a crowded place, you make yourself responsible of causing a dangerous situation. Same as flying a drone over an airport or throwing stones from a building.
Actually, In Chicago, with drill music, the murderer and the person who wrote the lyrics are sometimes one in the same. But even when they aren't personally murdering someone, often their 'hitter' is. And the music's gang-specific nature actually encourages 'beefs' over territory which quickly become violent. The music is literally crafting violence, by being the dog-whistle of gang politics. You can see parallels wi…
I think you missed the point of importance of clear link between violence-inciting-speech and actual violence. Because a lot of stuff today gets labeled as "hate speech" without direct violent consenquences - and that is the problem. Because once you relax the standards for the link between violence and speech, you can ban as "hate speech" _anything_.
And I am not meaning just "controversial" social/political views - for example FPS games were often tarred as "violence inciting" with little to no evidence just 15years ago. In current framework, that would be enough to actually ban them. Do you really think it's a good idea to go down this rabbit hole of banning anything that "might" lead to violence one day?
Does it mean we should ignore dogwhistling? Honestly, I don't know. It's a really hard problem I think. And current "solutions" of deplatforming "extremists" don't seem to be working towards reducing actual violence / social tension, so I don't think it's the right approach.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#697Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nonsense! Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater has a very high risk of getting hundreds of people instantly killed. It is not at all equivalent to verbally abusing someone. More so, verbal abuse is frequently socially desirable and useful! 2pac verbally abused people, many think of him as a great artist and social commentator. Many, many, many, many, many great artists did too -- Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Dostoevskiy, am…
I've been reading your comments with a lot of interest, but I feel like you took the easy road out on this reply. I think it's clear the OP isn't talking about single instances where someone verbally abuses another person. I agree it's useful/fine to criticize political leaders or for a rapper to diss another rapper. What we're actually dealing with in practice are people instigating hate for other groups of people,…
> Do we philosophically want to live in a world where people can be incited to great amounts of violence just because we want to protect FoS on private platforms?
Do we want to live in a world, where everyone will be scared to say anything socially unacceptable (because it _might_ lead to violence!) because of the total deplatforming that might happen as a conseqence?
There is a lot of blurring around the definition of "inciting violence", and I am scared of the slippery slope too.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#698Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. People keep saying this and repeating it, but as far as I can tell this meme is destructive and wrong. Freedom of speech isn't just a legal assurance that congress shall make no law abridging it. It is also a set of cultural norms rooted deeply in a long lineage of hard won ideas. It is Evelyn Hall's principle "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the de…
Careless remarks? " Before your stupid social justice feminine bullshit, [mass murders] didn't happen on this scale, it's crazy. This is a disease of the modern age. YOU are responsible for perpetuating it, by disenfranchising these poor fucking guys who don't have any options left. When someone takes the option of absolute insanely last resort, you have to wonder, what kind of system is producing them? And I'll tell…
[deleted]
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. People keep saying this and repeating it, but as far as I can tell this meme is destructive and wrong. Freedom of speech isn't just a legal assurance that congress shall make no law abridging it. It is also a set of cultural norms rooted deeply in a long lineage of hard won ideas. It is Evelyn Hall's principle "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the de…
Careless remarks? " Before your stupid social justice feminine bullshit, [mass murders] didn't happen on this scale, it's crazy. This is a disease of the modern age. YOU are responsible for perpetuating it, by disenfranchising these poor fucking guys who don't have any options left. When someone takes the option of absolute insanely last resort, you have to wonder, what kind of system is producing them? And I'll tell…
Frankly, yes, those ideas are just "quirky", if you want to use that word. I would use "extreme", and maybe even "a bit crazy", but I still think deplatforming those stupid ideas is wrong, because:
1) you should be able to say stupid stuff in public, as long as it does not actually cause violence ...
2) ... Which I think this does not. Yes, the line is blurred, but that's the point - is presumption of innocence a good idea?
I think yes, mainly because
3) this deplatforming apparently does not work to reduce the following of such people (I might be wrong, but have not seen any data disproving this).
Btw I get the impression that Trump has said similarly abhorrent things. Should we deplatform him? The slippery slope arguments starts to get real when you expand the bans to people like the one you quoted (assuming those were the worst things from him).
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#700Earlier quoted context omitted.
Patreon may not be a de facto monopoly but the MasterCard Visa cartel are and they leaned on the downstream payment processors to ban the Patreon competitor SubscribeStar as soon as they took on Carl Benjamin. https://twitter.com/nickmon1112/status/1076886857445711872?s...
Just FYI, you're linking to a Nick Monroe tweet. Monroe is a well known internet harasser who fancies himself a journalist because he digs up information to doxx people. What he characterizes deep dive investigations are mostly just him publishing the personal details of people, primarily on the left, and calling them pedophiles. He also, from my experience, seems to have pretty severe psychiatric issues. It's possib…
Ok, let's make it hypothetical (and I think it's worth discussing because there are other examples / it will happen soon anyway) - is the blocking by payment processors on more-or-less arbitrary grounds good idea? Don't THEY have the monopoly? (not treating BTC & co. seriously, sorry)
Because I (as I think most people) would be fine with the Patreon ban, had the payment processors' cartel stayed neutral (in our theoretical case). But once they side with Patreon, it is truly complete deplatforming, that you can't really solve by going to "another, more permissive, website".
And that is the real problem.