Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 1001 posts

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#691

Post by EJTH »

matttproud wrote: post #591
Akujin wrote: post #573

We take down Al Qaeda terrorist websites all the time because they can be used to radicalize people. Nazis are no different. They are calling for the systematic violent overthrow of the US government and for the extermination of many millions of so called undesirables. This is a terrorist threat. I take this threat very seriously as do many people in the Jewish, Hispanic, and African American community. There are lit…

^^^ The parent comment hits the ball out of the park. The commentary on past posts on HN and elsewhere floors me. It seems one or two things are prevalent: 1. Folks will gladly loan the hangman the rope that he will use to hang you, your family, and your neighbors — all because of "purity of belief" in free speech. Sorry, hate to break it to you, but these illiberal forces are a clear and present danger to this comfo…

> They won't politely tolerate you. Deviants will be chastised, expelled/expatriated, jailed, or killed. Ignoring prudence (preservation of self and the society at-large) is perilous.

Except I never really seen a 'neonazi' saying "punch a communist" I never seen mass media encourage such behavior either.

Do you not realize that this is cyclic reinforcement of behavior? (Antifa says punch nazis, nazis punch back, antifa ups their game with HIV needles and guns, nazis up their game etc)

Both sides are disgusting, but the fact that the media covers up for the leftist violence makes me stand on the side of the so called "right wing extremists".

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#692

Post by jamespo »

chvid wrote: post #599
matttproud wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^ The parent comment hits the ball out of the park. The commentary on past posts on HN and elsewhere floors me. It seems one or two things are prevalent: 1. Folks will gladly loan the hangman the rope that he will use to hang you, your family, and your neighbors — all because of "purity of belief" in free speech. Sorry, hate to break it to you, but these illiberal forces are a clear and present danger to this comfo…

I don't have any sympathy for the Daily Stormer. I just don't see where this is stopping. What else needs to be taken down? /pol/? Who about Breitbart? Or maybe some 2nd WW Nazi propaganda? Or something from the US civil war? You guys seem to be ok with this very slippery slope being assessed by random private companies accountable to who knows. And then you have the nerve to call us who believes that limits of free…

Maybe you should be the one who chooses what a private company can and can't do?

As for the slippery slope arguments, come on.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#693

Post by [deleted] »

jrimbault wrote: post #666
fennecfoxen wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't politely tolerate you. Deviants will be chastised, expelled/expatriated, jailed, or killed. If they have the power to? Yeah, in a heartbeat. But they're not the only ones, or the most powerful ones, just the most ostentatiously intolerant. > 1. Folks will gladly loan the hangman the rope that he will use to hang you, your family, and your neighbors — all because of "purity of belief" in free speech. If b…

>If both Nazis and (as an example) Communists have free speech That's where the argument become null, communists ideas have been banned from the US political landscape for a long time and even mild socialists propositions are a call for arms for many USians.

[deleted]

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#694

Post by jamespo »

wolco wrote: post #516
losteric wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fallacy because "free speech" is not unlimited - every civilization recognizes its existence is the result of limiting specific freedoms in order to guarantee everyone other freedoms. Germany, among others, outlaw this kind of content because they experienced the end result first-hand. Perhaps the US should learn from them.

They have learned why following the same path is not the best approach. Trying to censor and hide the past is easier than facing it:

If you'd ever been to Germany you'd realise they have faced it, they just don't want anyone celebrating it

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#695

Post by honestoHeminway »

KirinDave wrote: post #522
gbarc888 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political affiliation is a protected class. I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-right conservatives to Trump voters to people who self-identify as neo-Nazis. Unless a person registered with the NSDAP prior to 1945, technically they are not a Nazi.

> I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-right conservatives to Trump voters to people who self-identify as neo-Nazis. This coyness about the dilution of meaning is utterly irrelevant here. We're not discussing figurative Nazis or the erosion of the term. We're discussing people literally waving modern variants of historical Nazi flags, histori…

No, we just have been yelled at for soo many reasons and so long, we concluded that whoever yells at us is always wrong.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#696

Post by doubleshame »

thinkfurther wrote: post #137
doubleshame wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are NOT fighting the people here, we're fighting the ideas. I don't think we should ever forget this.

You too should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032018 and maybe this for good measure: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15014737 I forgot nothing, I'd rather say I know things you haven't yet understood.

Thanks for these choice quotes.

I completely agree for the need for boundaries, but I think we've done a most excellent job of setting them!

The current boundary is speech that immediately incites violence, I believe the supreme court interpretation has been very generous towards the notion of free speech, including hate speech, as it should be!

Here's why:

We should let the radicals be racist and make radical statements as much as they want. At the point at which they turn violent or call for specific acts of violence we should step in and shut that stuff down.

A blanket militant action against the whole ideology will no doubt show better results on shutting down the movement on a short term.

But the notion of freedom of speech is not meant to protect these radicals, it is meant to protect ourselves and the integrity of society! We cannot make exceptions to these rules just because it's more convenient to us now, because this weakens the principle. This is the whole slippery slope argument.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If you wish to change the lines on which we use force, you must make a coherent case based on principle, not on convenience or anecdotes, as the principles themselves already account for, in a deep way, the history to which you allude.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#697

Post by EJTH »

matt4077 wrote: post #466
gritzko wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Nazi.

...and then everything was fine–because "slippery slope" isn't actually an argument.

Not untill you are the one getting censored, then its a slippery slope again, right?

The double standards you guys have. Just fuck my society up fam.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#698

Post by Houshalter »

jrimbault wrote: post #622
illuminati1911 wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence is the main reason why the world is so fucked up today. "Unless you agree with my radical leftist agenda you are a nazi/racist/ "-mentality and the complete unreasonability of the left is the reason why normal people are fed up with all this crap and are voting for Trump, Brexit etc. No matter how evil some group is (may they be pedophiles, satan worshippers, nazis, whatever...) silencing them and a…

Anarchists and communists have long been banned from entering the US. And I've noticed a strong push back against most of the more mild socialists ideas. The US have not been "the land of the free" for a long time. And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology. While fascism has never leaned on the good side of human nature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954 https://en.wik…

>And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology.

This is a dangerous thing to say publicly! As you mention yourself, the United States has had red scares just a generation ago. Who is to say it won't happen again? And that is exactly why you should support freedom of speech and tolerance of differing ideologies. Or the next red scare will be even worse.

>statues of Lenin and Stalin were removed without much second thought, only USians would keep statues of their (war criminals)|(rebels) for 150 years.

As far as I know most of the USSR world war 2 monuments are still standinding. The US is removing even monuments to soldiers that don't feature any specific general or leader. By your logic we should tear down the famous Vietnam war memorial because the US lost the war.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#699

Post by eyko »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #615
Akujin wrote: post #573

We take down Al Qaeda terrorist websites all the time because they can be used to radicalize people. Nazis are no different. They are calling for the systematic violent overthrow of the US government and for the extermination of many millions of so called undesirables. This is a terrorist threat. I take this threat very seriously as do many people in the Jewish, Hispanic, and African American community. There are lit…

The last sentence is the main reason why the world is so fucked up today. "Unless you agree with my radical leftist agenda you are a nazi/racist/ "-mentality and the complete unreasonability of the left is the reason why normal people are fed up with all this crap and are voting for Trump, Brexit etc. No matter how evil some group is (may they be pedophiles, satan worshippers, nazis, whatever...) silencing them and a…

Isn't perjury a crime? What about death threats? It's all speech, and it's the type of speech hate groups use - the type that is already a crime and we want to protect under some strange interpretation of the first amendment to your constitution.

If a group is threatening the security of non-white people, some even going to the extent of carrying guns (as is their right) whilst they make said threats and spread lies, I don't know what else you need to shut them down.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#700

Post by EJTH »

Akujin wrote: post #573

We take down Al Qaeda terrorist websites all the time because they can be used to radicalize people. Nazis are no different. They are calling for the systematic violent overthrow of the US government and for the extermination of many millions of so called undesirables. This is a terrorist threat. I take this threat very seriously as do many people in the Jewish, Hispanic, and African American community. There are lit…

> The idea that I'm seeing any of these comments arguing to the contrary means HN is already infiltrated by /pol/ and other Nazi sympathizing groups.

Infiltrated? You talk like having a different opinion than you justifies social stigma and exclusion, do you really think that helps anyone?

I didn't realize that HN was full of 16 year old communists.

Post reply on HN