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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#691

Post by throwaway1892 »

gutnor wrote: post #538
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

There are other things: * Cheap nursery. * Quality public schools. * Quality food for kids in public education. My bigger cost right now in London is my son. Nursery alone is way more than my rent and the price of renting in London is stupid even compared to Paris.

> * Cheap nursery.

The problem is the limited number of places. All the persons around me struggle to find a place in nursery for their childrens.

> * Quality public schools.

It is highly dependent on which school. In lot of public school, it's shit.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#692

Post by throwaway1892 »

user5994461 wrote: post #571
hk__2 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * 5 weeks holiday + public holidays In some companies you get even more weeks ("RTTs") to compensate for the hours you do over 35hrs/week. The company I work for gives me the usual 5 weeks plus 3 weeks of RTTs which brings the total to 8 weeks, i.e. almost 2 months per year (!)

Also means you don't get paid 8 weeks a year. I remember very well when French employers forced me to get more holidays, which destroyed the income I needed to actually afford any holidays at all.

I'm calling BS on that. No, you get paid during your holidays in France, wathever the type, RTT or annual leave. In addition to that, you can take unpaid leave.

Perhaps you were a contractor? In that case you would not be paid when you're not working.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#693

Post by throwaway1892 »

ianderf wrote: post #640
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

> The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard So, France could be great to be an employee, but it's horrible for entrepreneurs.

Yeah, if you're not a big firm, you'll have a lot of difficulties.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#694

Post by tom_mellior »

digikata wrote: post #603
erowtom wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kills me a lot also. I'm planning to buy something this year / next year, I still don't know yet if it's gonna be in Paris or not. For the same price, in Paris I would get a 50m2, while in province (the rest of France), I would have a new 300m2 house with garden. It really kills me also. But you don't have to stop at this detail,

How are the prices outside of Paris, say a 30m away by train?

Maybe a third cheaper. Cheaper still if you're not actually close to the train. There are only 2 million people living in Paris proper, but 12 million within such commuting distance. So there's still a lot of competition for living space.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#695

Post by emmanuel_1234 »

Regardless of what you take home at the end, do not move to France for the salary/wealth. Move to France for the way of life and the overall social and personal security. Some people prefers not being in a perpetual rat race and having more time to enjoy life, by being with your family everyday (not just on week-ends!), doing sport with friends or knowing that you won't go bankrupt/uninsured because of some stupid accident like growing old.

If you're really into the rat race, awesome, keep doing it, but yeah, you probably should not move to France.

I'm personally expatriated because my current mood is settled for the rat race. As I'm growing older, I have the feeling I'll regret it if I don't slow down and I'm very much considering moving back to Europe/France.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#696

Post by throwaway1892 »

ekianjo wrote: post #671
tostaki wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't claim it's the best of the world but calling it expensive and dreadful if just not the reality. Compared to what I have experienced mostly in Europe I found it good and inexpensive.

You should mention the numerous strikes of the RER to give a full picture of the reality then. Because that's a real issue for people who want to rely ONLY on public transports in Paris.

And when it's not a strike, it's the breakdowns. This morning, my commute was one hour longer since there was no train on my line and I had to walk to another one.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#697

Post by tom_mellior »

morgante wrote: post #588
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

> Your entire working career could be only 10 years. [...] European developers are underpaid. Full stop.

If your chosen standard is that software developers must be financially independent demi-gods after ten years, then yes, by that standard, European developers are underpaid. It's not clear that that's really the correct standard, though.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#698

Post by throwaway1892 »

unknown_apostle wrote: post #686

I'm warning everyone: don't come to France (or Belgium). The worst thing that could happen to you, is that your startup actually becomes hugely successful. You will get ripped off left and right by an pugnacious socialist state, supported by a spoiled population that still hasn't fully digested just how irrelevant they have made themselves in the world.

> a spoiled population that still hasn't fully digested just how irrelevant they have made themselves in the world.

I think the problem was more with the various gov we had since De Gaulle than the population. And also with the massive immigration and the political exploitation of the migrants.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#699

Post by victorNicollet »

renaudg wrote: post #633
erowtom wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Update : Thanks for the feedbacks ! 1st update: Included mobile phone + Internet 2nd update: Huge update, completly forgot about one tax on the salary.. ----------------------- I'm French, I can give you some more details. I'm a full stack Ruby Developer, and I work at https://www.talent.io , the first recruitment platform for developers in Europe. (If you're looking to relocate in Paris, London or Berlin, you know w…

>> * Healthcare insurance ~ 40 euros / month, the company pays half for it. (240 / year) For the benefit of non-French readers, let's clarify that the kind of 40€/month health insurance you're talking about is called "mutuelle", which is optional extra private insurance that covers the remaining third or so of each medical bill, after mandatory state insurance ("sécurité sociale") took care of the first two thirds (s…

Yes, you might have to pay out of pocket for some things (special prescription eyeglasses, certain kinds of dental treatment, etc.), but the general idea is that you won't be hit with a surprise bill of several thousands because something went wrong.

Last year, my son (30 months old) spent a week in the hospital, underwent surgery, and had to keep a cast on for six weeks. The remaining costs, after the sécurité sociale paid its share, were 17€. Covered by the mutuelle.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#700

Post by Chris2048 »

quickConclusion wrote: post #621
Chris2048 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus employee welfare in France is ridiculous, ultimately harmful to their economy..

Even if what you said was true, what would be the point of a strong economy if people cannot have healthcare? I'd rather have a less strong economy and better health for everyone. Not surprisingly, it helps the economy: people dont lose their savings, jobs and houses when they get sick in Europe.

I didn't say "they can't have healthcare". I'm talking about employment.

> I'd rather have a less strong economy

There are plenty of countries/citizens that can't dictate what they want.

Do competing developing countries have this choice? Why not?

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