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Apple’s declining software quality

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Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#691
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio... Classic Mac OS was buggy by design - it didn't have multitasking and memory protection, it was single user... Windows had that same problem before 2000 (well, NT 4, but not many people used that). I use OS X daily and I use Windows 7 daily. I have far fewer issues with OS X for whatever reason that may be. My computers…

Jeez, you're talking about something designed and built in 1982-1983 (over 30 years ago) and meant to run on something with 128KB of RAM with no hard drive and a 400KB floppy disk. You try fitting all that plus a GUI those constraints. What's amazing is that it had the features it had and that it worked at all.

You might like to check out MenuetOS/KolibriOS and the old QNX demo disk.

Both provide GUIs and rudimentary Web browsers. QNX was full POSIX, too, although the demo disk didn't include a terminal.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#692
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've touched on something key: people's acceptance of bugs is often outweighed by the new features they get. In other words, if the "new functionality" is perceived to outweigh the costs of the lack of reliability, the product will be deemed "less buggy" because people "understand" why there are issues. This made total sense in some of Apple's biggest products: OS X and iPhone. When OS X first came out it c…

"I think you've touched on something key: people's acceptance of bugs is often outweighed by the new features they get. In other words, if the "new functionality" is perceived to outweigh the costs of the lack of reliability, the product will be deemed "less buggy" because people "understand" why there are issues." Right - which is why we have all of the snow leopard nostalgia: because none of the newer releases have…

AirPlay; much better multi-display support; tags in Finder; Spotlight enhancements. More than anything, the iCloud/iOS continuity features were also big if you had an iPhone or iPad, everything is just much easier to keep in sync.

I'm a Safari user (better battery usage for the # of tabs I have open) and it too has improved with El Capitan though that's irrelevant for Chrome/FF users.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you are doing. Just yesterday, OSX was convinced that I had an external monitor. I did, but that was 2 hours back when I was at the office. So I got to the preferences screen and.. the kernel crashed.

Do you have some kind of third-party display or window manager installed? I regularly (as in "every day") have my Macbook hooked up to dual monitors and I've never had the kernel crash due to a disconnect or a change on the preferences screen. Does that happen regularly for you or was that just a one-off occurrence?

I've got an otherwise unexceptional LG monitor that with one specific generation of MacBook causes all sorts of problems. My windows machines and newer macbooks don't have this problem, and connect to the monitor fine.

So it can be hardware issues. Often subtle ones.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#694
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They got a handle on security when Linux list a fire under their ass. I have my doubts that all 0.02% or whatever of PC users who are dedicated to using Linux as their desktop OS influenced Microsoft to do anything but if you have data to show otherwise I'd be interested in it.

"if you have data to show otherwise I'd be interested in it." ... Some data says Linux desktop/laptop share is 1.5% (not counting chromebooks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... Please note also that Android is Linux and iOS is Darwin BSD unix. Linux and Unix based kernels are more numerous than Windows based units.

The fact that iOS and Android have a UNIX like kernel doesn't count much if the majority of userspace apps use non UNIX APIs and tooling.

They could replace the kernel with something else and most devs wouldn't even notice.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caveat: i havent used it on my main machine yet, so a lot of this is impressionistic; feel free to correct. Still a total disregard of Fitt's law. Horribly inconsistent keyboard support. Behaviour that should be trivially configurable seemingly set in stone. Still, I think, impossible to cut a file in Finder. However many shots that take, apple can't get WiFi working properly. The transparency is an abomination. If y…

> Still a total disregard of Fitt's law. Horribly inconsistent keyboard support. Behaviour that should be trivially configurable seemingly set in stone. Still, I think, impossible to cut a file in Finder. The transparency is an abomination. Well, those are not software quality issues. Some of those are design decisions, and have been with us forever, not random accidents: "Cut", for example, has never been on the Mac…

>And I've travelled all over the US, Europe and in several parts of Asia. I've never had any trouble with wifi, even to non-chain, el-cheapo motels. So I wonder, what are all those wi-fi issues people mention in forums etc.

I agree with this 98%, with the exception of early releases of Yosemite, which really did seem to have a WiFi problem on the rMBP (even with Apple Airport Extreme base stations), in that it would disconnect a lot and you'd have to recycle your WiFi off/on. Annoying but not a deal breaker. And fixed within a month or two.

Otherwise I'd suspect there are some hardware + driver variations of Macbooks that may have had issues for others.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#696
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like many people are not making enough of the distinction between choices and bugs. Sure there are bugs in lots of stuff, and that's an entirely valid conversation, but there's also a layer of confounding choices. Some make sense from an "corporate" perspective, some... -iTunes bloat is a choice, and bugs. -Mail.app is mostly bugs. (non-standard .mbox was a choice) -Final Cut X was a choice. -Eschewing strong A…

> The app store(s) are a choice. In that case, allow me to summarize some of the choices that went into building the Mac App Store. - It's a web view. No local caching of layout or anything. If your network connection hiccups, instead of a reasonably rendered error message, you get this: http://i.imgur.com/5xNgwMH.png - Text in the search box is blurry. I'm not 100% sure why, but I think someone made a choice to rend…

This is exactly my point. Apple has been making these choices for a while, but they're being swept into a convo about bugs, and thus capacity/engineering. I think atp.fm dip into this for a second in their most recent (yesterday) podcast episode.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#697
post #663

Apple fans blow expectations way out of proportions. Apple products are fairly decent but far from perfect. Being a web dev, the only reason I use a MacBook Pro is for having a performant Photoshop without a VM. Otherwise I prefer Ubuntu due to the hardware choice and for almost every other aspect. To be honest, with the Retina MacBooks, the memory consumption has only increased with the 2x graphics and images becomi…

>16GB is simply not enough even without running a VM. All it takes is around 100 browser tabs and an IDE for the ram to exhaust.

Browsers are notorious memory leakers. I find my rMBP 16 GB is fine even with an IDE and VMs, but I do have to restart Chrome or Safari at least once a day.

> I wish they had a 32GB version that's not a desktop.

There have been limitations with Intel chipsets there until the latter half of 2015. I'd expect to see a 32 GB and maybe even a 64 GB MBP this year.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#698
Had been on OSX for desktop pretty much exclusively for the last 15 years up until recently. Have jumped to Windows due to my current focus on VR.

I used OSX for the first time in a few months yesterday, having installed Windows 10 on my Macbook a few months back.

For about 5 minutes I started to think that I missed it, it looks so nice, but within 10 minutes I'd had two fundamental networking issues crop up that slowed and then stopped me from doing my work without a reboot.

I own a fully pimped out top of the line 2014 15" Retina Pro ($4k to buy at the time). For at least a year it had a WiFi bug that required me to enter a command at the terminal in order to disable some aspect of networking so that I get full WiFi speed. If I don't my WiFI is limited to 10Mbps, once the command is run I get nearly triple that (i.e same as when I plugin ethernet). Why was I having to manually type commands at the command line in order to get my $4k laptop to connect properly to WiFi? 229 pages of people's issues here in just one thread:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/29742198?tstart=0#2974...

Also google "slow wifi MacBook pro"

It's possible this has been resolved in more recent updates and/or El Capitan.

Final issues yesterday was network access to my NAS, just random connectivity. Sometimes I can get access sometimes I can't. If I try to connect with an incorrect account password then access hangs and I'm not prompted to login again, so I have to reboot to get a network login window. It's just so frustrating, because I would love to stick with Apple. I've had none of these issues with Windows 10, or even Manjaro when I tried it again recently. But I do really miss lots of 3rd party software that I can only get on OSX.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#699

This has to be a management problem. Apple has total control over the hardware, total control over third party developers, and $203 billion in cash. What are they doing wrong? Apple has the resources to approach software like aerospace. Formal interface specs, heavy Q/A, tough regression tests, formal methods. It's expensive, but Apple ships so many copies that the cost per unit is insignificant. Microsoft did that,…

Nah, I think it's a perception problem. As someone whose starry-eyed Mac obsession predated Windows 95 - Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio, and it was buggy under Jobs. I remember getting plenty of sad Macs under System 6 and 7, and early versions of OS X weren't any better. We just didn't care because Steve Jobs was really good at distracting us with promis…

Perception problem is the right description. Let us take a devil's advocate view and try to fit the facts into a narrative that inverts the public wisdom.

Microsoft is making over 4 times what it made in its glory days, growing year by year, across a wide range of products and services. Windows and office account for only half of that, making them a diversified company with plenty of potential for revenue growth. Windows 10 is by far the most successful windows release ever, with more active installs than os x (any version). Basically the only place microsoft is truly failing is phone.

Apple by contrast gets two thirds of their revenue from the iphone. They have nothing else that even comes close, and nothing that could replace it if iphone sales start dropping. Mac sales are down, ipad sales are down, and the apple watch is a dud. Since 1990 apple has basically had two hits: ipod and iphone. I did not mention ipad because it is just another iphone model, which you can tell by its sales slumping as iphone screen sizes moved up. Success for Apple is rare, and most of what they do isn't all that amazing. The apple tv isn't going anywhere, even after the refresh. The apple watch distinguishes itself from other smartwatches only by its price. Basically the only place that apple is truly succeeding is phone.

Perception is everything. How you choose to look at the facts determines which facts you see. Apple is perceived as strong and microsoft as weak, but the facts give you the option of going either way.

Regardless, apple has few excuses for any quality issues. They have the resources, and they have had enough time (given that aside from the watch everything else is half a decade old or more). Personally my mac and ipad anno 2015 have the same amount of glitches as my mac and ipod anno 2005. For me, Apple doesn't seem to be getting worse, but they don't seem to be getting any better either.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#700
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think you've touched on something key: people's acceptance of bugs is often outweighed by the new features they get. In other words, if the "new functionality" is perceived to outweigh the costs of the lack of reliability, the product will be deemed "less buggy" because people "understand" why there are issues." Right - which is why we have all of the snow leopard nostalgia: because none of the newer releases have…

AirPlay; much better multi-display support; tags in Finder; Spotlight enhancements. More than anything, the iCloud/iOS continuity features were also big if you had an iPhone or iPad, everything is just much easier to keep in sync. I'm a Safari user (better battery usage for the # of tabs I have open) and it too has improved with El Capitan though that's irrelevant for Chrome/FF users.

ok, airplay I guess - although I've never used it, I do see people using it to good effect.

Worth mentioning that airplay is just userland software - nothing special, and no reason it couldn't have been added to SL.

I don't know about multi display, though - I've been under the impression that that is broken in new and fascinating ways with every single release...

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