681–690 of 748 posts
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I don’t think people are idiots if they don’t understand how a normally intelligent person might not intuit that. I do think they have a seriously underdeveloped theory of mind.
> idiots > seriously underdeveloped What's the difference?
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Not sure what point you’re trying to make.
That no one has actually solved the underlying problem at all, and the generation of the example LLM has no bearing on the nature of the fundamental problem.
What I’m saying is that the AI labs are handling this not by fixing the “garbage out” part, but by minimizing the “garbage in” part.
The fact that all you could come up with was research (not an actual example of poisoning a real training set) from 2025 kind of proves that this isn’t some kind of widespread, unsolvable problem like you seem to be claiming.
A few years ago (before the AI craze), I was misdiagnosed with tuberculosis. I had a chronic cough, and an outsourced radiologist at a clinic found signs of tuberculosis. The findings were sent to the city's tuberculosis hospital, as required by the country's law. The doctors there took the radiologist's conclusion at face value and required me to stay at their hospital for at least 8 months under a strict, prison-li…
I've heard this experience from quite a few folks before, but this is my first time hearing about a mandatory 8 months quarantine as a consequence... damn
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A second opinion is a smart move if one has doubts about their diagnosis. Doctors make mistakes, and even though I've worked with countless great doctors, I've never worked a job where there wasn't at least one who was undiscerning, or downright lazy and negligent. It's hard to tell people to trust their doctor when I know there are plenty of doctors out there like this. But AI as of right now is worse than any bad d…
The healthcare affordability crisis is only going to exacerbate the trend of using AI as a replacement for a real doctor. I went to urgent care a few months ago to get tested for COVID and two other flu strains and it came out to almost $500. Anecdotally, several people in my life who embrace less traditional (and sometimes more conspiratorial) views on modern healthcare tend to be the ones that can't afford it. A co…
They have at-home COVID+Flu tests are my local CVS for $35, why go to an urgent care?
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> What happened to VERIFYING an answer? Does nobody do that anymore? The problem with medical advice is that you may not be competent to verify the answer, right? I agree that asking 5 LLMs to vote and trusting the answer is totally the wrong approach, of course. But LLMs (and traditional material) can help getting more informed. For instance, instead of going to your doctor with the LLM diagnosis and trying to convi…
Or more specifically in this case: the patient was obviously insisting on a diagnosis and treatment based on ... a slightly hurting shoulder, with zero visible or detectable phenomena. So the doctors gave him what he wanted: a treatment ... and Claude told him the treatment was a placebo. Correctly, I might add. Yeah, it is absolutely not what the patient wanted to hear. BAD doctors! Except ... no, not really. Does t…
> [the orthopedist] suggested I get an MRI, which the clinic conveniently had available. [...] This, of course, means little to me, but their suggested course of treatment was extensive; [...] Coming out of the clinic, I had the feeling they had jumped the gun.
The author also says:
> They injected me with Traumeel, which is registered in Germany as a homeopathic medicine "without a therapeutic indication".
I personally wouldn't want to be injected homeopathic medicine "without a therapeutic indication" without even knowing it is homeopathy.
And my recent experience with multiple doctors at multiple hospitals is that just like LLMs, you shouldn't blindly trust them. Sometimes they make mistakes, and in my experience they never, ever admit it (maybe even to themselves).
So trying to get informed "on the internet" (including with LLMs) feels sane to me, but that's worth what it is worth.
What concerns me in the article is that they have GPT make a diagnosis, Claude review it, and somehow seem to assume that if both LLMs agree, they must not be completely wrong. Just like for code, it takes an expert to leverage an LLM to take an expert decision. A beginner can leverage the LLM to understand the problem better, but they never reach the level of expert just from that.
Unfortunately it's part of lowering the confidence towards doctors, and the solution to that is to try and get informed and ask another doctor. And of course they don't like it if you say "I already asked someone else but I don't trust doctors in general, so I am now asking you to test the both of you".
I feel like I'm going nuts. There are other commenters saying this is a good practice they've also done for other injuries. You are saying you are an actual radiologist and immediately clock the problems with its advice. I have seen this pattern over and over again. Anytime someone is an actual expert at anything, AI output appears insufficient or incomplete or outright misleading. It is only when you do not know wha…
I came here to post this as my experience. AI is magical when I apply it to something I know nothing about. It far exceeds my expectations every single time. I know nothing, but here is a report with animated graphics explaining exactly what I asked it to explain! In fields where I'm an expert... it makes a lot of silly mistakes that are annoying and I feel like they would just cascade if I didn't correct them early.…
1. operates against a well-defined DB of medical studies
2. intakes my basic demographics, vital signs and medical history
3. quantify uncertainty wrt a specific diagnostic (it's own or one received by a healthcare professional)
4. specify medical tests that can be executed, and how they can be obtained
5. provide scripts for interacting with healthcare professionals/functionaries
I would imagine that the thing would need distinct operating modes:
1. A diagnosis generator
2. A diagnosis evaluator/critiquer
3. A patient educator
I've seen a lot of friends and family members almost immediately get offered surgery for shoulder pain. It's just often the default for people that do surgeries for a living. I also had a pretty painful shoulder issue at one point, where the pain just wasn't subsiding for months. I tried massages and acupuncture as I didn't want to do surgery, but it wasn't helping at all. The thing that fixed it for me was just real…
I have hip impingement, I played sports and got a labral tear in one of my hips. My hip would get sore and painful after a lot of activity. I've seen a top surgeon in the US. After we just met, he looked at the MRI(yes there was a small labral tear there) and said he can have me on an operating table in 2 weeks.
I was shocked, because the recovery absolutely sucks. So, I got 2nd and 3rd opinion.
3rd opinion was a doc with 20+ years of experience. Asked me if I plan on going pro in any sports, I said no, he said the surgery is not worth it. I did some PT and barely have issues with that hip.
Then, Obama admin created a website to see what gifts($) physicians accept. The 1st surgeon had accepted six figures+ from stryker. The older doc? 0.
There is no money in PT for a surgeon. I would thread lightly with popular and young surgeons.
> There's something incredibly peaceful about being in the hands of an expert you trust. [...] AI can absolutely shatter that feeling in an uncomfortable way [...] but I don't know if I can fully trust AI either. This really is key. We know we can't trust the AI, but at the same time we're also more comfortable asking the AI for clarifications or confronting it. Not having a time-bound appointment or paying by the ho…
There are 3 kinds of mechanics: Scammers who do the lowest effort diagnostic and "fix" to get you to pay a smaller amount of money to fix the problem in the short term even though it'll re-present itself a week/month/year later. Upsellers who will find other things "wrong" with your car and pressure you into paying to fix them because they sound a lot worse than they are. Good mechanics that will explain what they di…
I have read about doctors complaining that "with AI, patients now come with their own diagnosis and don't trust us when we say it's bullshit, and it is a problem". I can feel for them, but if they give the feeling that they don't listen to the patients and the patients don't trust them, it's not only the patients' fault, I would say.
[1]: I have more than one examples of my relatives like this: A doctor says "wow that's bad go to the ER", the ER says "nope it's all good, go home", first doctor learns about that and says "WTF you GO TO THE ER, call me and I will insult them on the phone", and finally resulting in a surgery where the doctors say "they were lucky we could operate right now, because in a matter of hours they could have died from this". How in the world can I trust them after one event like this? Happened to me (in some variation) 3 times. Not based on an LLM diagnosis in the first place: based on a doctor's diagnosis.
I feel like I'm going nuts. There are other commenters saying this is a good practice they've also done for other injuries. You are saying you are an actual radiologist and immediately clock the problems with its advice. I have seen this pattern over and over again. Anytime someone is an actual expert at anything, AI output appears insufficient or incomplete or outright misleading. It is only when you do not know wha…
This is the root of AI psychosis. There’s a lot of unpack here, and I won’t go too deep because you can’t really have a discussion with affected folks because their fundamental basis is not evidence, it’s belief. It is weirdly religious in a way, because if you were to present contrary evidence (e.g. experts in a field weighing in about how plausible sounding responses are bunk), you would only be told you don’t beli…
But on your actual point, I don't think AI needs to "surpass current experts abilities in all promised fields" as a marker of its ability. The immediate gains has already shown some remarkable promise and more LLMs should have had safeguards around mental health up front. If I were to put it on a scale, I would say it is net positive long term with a strong negative spike up front which was somewhat preventable. But who knows, maybe is just have "AI Psychosis" and you can easily dismiss me.