Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

admin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 891 posts

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#681

Post by panick21_ »

autoexec wrote: post #512
crazygringo wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually kind of genius. It implicitly reframes a debate about immigration, to a debate about ecology/sustainability. Like I'm not defending it or saying it's honest. But as a marketing jiujitsu move, it's actually impressively creative.

I think that immigration actually is an ecology/sustainability issue. There are economic and cultural effects to immigration as well, and that's what people tend to focus on, but they aren't the only issues to consider. I think every country that has their shit together should be giving serious thought to immigration and sustainability, especially knowing that a massive number of climate refugees are coming in the ne…

Im sure the ecology is much improved by letting people stay where they are and be poorer. In fact we should start to remove people from all rich places so the can live in sustainable poverty.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#683

Post by panick21_ »

dh2022 wrote: post #464
joe_mamba wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks, energy, telecom, defence, oil & gas companies had to be sold to French, German and Austrian companies for below market value, so those countries would lift their veto. Same with joining NATO TBF. We had to buy some overpriced shoddy used F-16 from the US with a lot of miles on the clock, for the same price of brand new Swedish Gripens just so the US would accepts us in NATO. So if history does indeed repeat it…

Romanian banks were looted by Romanians in the 90s: see Paunesu brothers and BRD. Also see Dacia Felix bank, Bancorex. Romanian telecom: post communist crash Romanian telecommunications were a disaster. For example two different phone numbers shared the same line (a.k.a. Cuplajul). In late 90s some western telecom companies started investing in Romanian cellular networks- they built all the tower and network infrastr…

The idea that taking and helping countries like Romania was some massive commercial oppertunity is wild.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#684

Post by garte »

elektrontamer wrote: post #670
garte wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not make sense. How can you differentiate between "good" migrants (apparently you yourself) and "bad" ones? Shouldn't you remove yourself because you're a migrant to increase the quality of life for the "natives"?

It makes perfect sense. Differentiating between a good and bad ones is the easiest thing ever. 1. Are they a net benefit to the country's finances? Do they pay more than enough taxes to cover the public services they use and then some. Or are they just a leech on the welfare system and a burden to society in general. 2. Do they integrate well into the society? Do they commit crimes? 3. To whom is their allegeince? Th…

1. As long as these are measured they are not a problem: Switzerland - and most of the EU countries - do simply not have a problem with poor people leeching the welfare systems, but rich people not paying their share: tax evasion by the rich is a problem going into the billions while social security fraud is around millions.

2. That's also measurable by crime stats and Switzerland is really tough in re-patriating people that broke the law.

3. That is something you cannot measure and where you cannot guarantee freedom or fairness in a society. What if I were to deem you too stupid to vote because you're advocating for a fascist mindset that might overthrow the democratic fundamentals? You wouldn't want that, I suppose.

So there's nothing to be done that's not already been done.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#685

Post by _trampeltier »

jason-johnson wrote: post #615
_trampeltier wrote: post #201

The question is not wrong, but the answer is. Here in Switzerlands middle land, the streets and trains are very crowded, not just during peek hours. On the other hand, it's already now hard to find people for almost any kind of work.

When ever anyone says they can't find workers, at the end of the sentence there is always an implicit "for the compensation I'm offering".

Yes and no. Thats also a kind of problem in Switzerland. The social system is so good, you can have a pretty good life without working. One one side, thats a good thing, on the other side, for some people, even young people, they say thats enough for me, and never start to work.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#686

Post by panick21_ »

maxglute wrote: post #176
ryandrake wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens, specifically? Not that I'm a fan of "population increase forever" but what's wrong with Canada?

Pop increase faster than housing / good jobs. The usual. Tried to juice economy post covid with MASS Indian immigration, for reference peak "Chinese" immigration was post HK handover was 60k, settled at 40k per year, lots of Chinese wealth transfer to Canada. Indian immigration went from 60k per year to over 140k, outrageous amount. Bluntly, most of west including Canada gets second tier immigrants, all the good oppo…

Canada is really bad with housing and inftrastructure. Blame immigrants not crack head white politicans who see bike lanes as the devil take car and oil money whole worshiping Trump and far right parties all over the world.

Yeah immigrants are really the problem.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#687

Post by soco »

einpoklum wrote: post #393
kuerbel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

The text of the proposal disagrees with your claim. Or - are there lots of Europeans seeking asylum in Switzerland?

Funny enough, the voting of this weekend mentions as argument also "the lax asylum politics in the EU" while exactly THIS weekend the EU is strengthening a lot, and I mean quite a lot, the asylum procedures and including border controls. I guess they had to push it quickly before the Swiss voter notices...

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#688

Post by indiangenz »

izacus wrote: post #351
bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

Well, first UK had to vote for their own anti immigration nonsense, then US tried out their MAGA winning and now it's time for Switzerland to follow in their footsteps and make their country great again with SVP at the helm. After all, this time it HAS to go better right?

[flagged]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#689

Post by garte »

elektrontamer wrote: post #675
garte wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a logical standpoint there really is only one rational step you can take: you have to leave because you are a migrant. And that's exactly where all of this thinking falls apart: in an equal, democratic society no group should be able to decide who's a good or a bad citizen. There's only the laws of the country that should count and everyone has to obey. You should soften up your idea of "migration" because there…

> 99% of "immigration problems" are because of poverty and inequality That's just made up claim there's no evidence to support this. Even if it were true it's not the taxpayers responsibility to import all the degenerate murderers and rapists from all over the world in the hopes of civilizing them. Why should someone from a developed country agree to give up their safety and wealth to run this ridiculous and deadly e…

> Even if it were true it's not the taxpayers responsibility to import all the degenerate murderers and rapists from all over the world in the hopes of civilizing them.

That's just not how any of this works and I think you know it. You're just being obtuse, although I don't know why.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#690

Post by deaux »

meken wrote: post #425
xenonite wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we have a really well recognized Spanish team lead here, yet he’s mostly hiring Spanish people (in Switzerland), oh yes and one Italian is the exception. Also we had a German team lead hiring Germans, well surprise it is easier being with similar ones. Diversity back in the day meant Physics, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering working together…

I’m an American and I just had the thought - if I was working in Japan at a Japanese company and I had the opportunity to hire, would I have a bias to hire other Americans? Honestly probably, since I understand them the best.

I've actually been in such a situation and I didn't. Or if I did have such a bias it must've been rather small as none of the applicants benefited from it.
Post reply on HN