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Global warming has accelerated significantly

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Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#681

Post by jpadkins »

maest wrote: post #473
jpadkins wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Instead of this lazy deflection, you should suggest what you believe would be an appropriate attitude towards these people.

I think it's fine to engage in a healthy debate with skeptics, informed with facts and well supported suppositions as long as you have the bandwidth. I also acknowledge that one does not have to respond to skeptics, as they can waste time and energy. However, convincing the public of major changes of lifestyle and economy should be hard. At some point, you have to address the skeptics that bring up good, well reasoned arguments. Declaring them "enemies of mankind" is not persuasive, nor does it lead to peaceful resolution of important debates.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#682

Post by lokar »

goatlover wrote: post #406
jtr1 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But the economy" is an out-of-date framing. The cost of renewables has been plummeting for well over a decade. New renewables are now cheaper than new fossil fuel plants in most of the world, and in many regions they're already competitive with or cheaper than simply running existing fossil fuel infrastructure. As modern wars in Ukraine and now Iran are increasingly demonstrating, they are not only cost effective bu…

A new US administration and Congress need to be voted in. There is one party who backs fossil fuel interests and denies anthropogenic climate change. They're currently in charge. The American public didn't see that as an important enough issue in 2024.

They are forcing power companies to run coal plants that they don’t want to run (at a loss).

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#683

Post by imglorp »

reducesuffering wrote: post #609
morphle wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We MUST MUST stop burning things. Yes, we must. It is so rare to see someone saying this in public. Thank you for this simple clarity. Stop burning everything! Fossil fuel, wood, plastic, garbage, paper. Stop making methane. We only need solar energy at 1 dollarcent or eurocent (it will get much cheaper still!!) and a little batteries for the convenience of using electricity when the sun does not shine. In the nort…

> Stop burning everything! Fossil fuel, wood, plastic, garbage. I don't understand the wood argument. Isn't it widely accepted we need to do burns to manage forests? Wood is a short-term cycle of carbon. It releases when it burns but frees up space to capture it right after. When people live on rural plots and trees fall, should they burn for heat (and lessen needing other energy sources) or let it decompose and caus…

The trick to forest management is allow or create small, frequent burns that clean up dry, overgrown understories. Nature does this without our help and some species even depend on it. If we interfere with this, eventually there's a big fire instead that levels the place.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#684

Post by 01100011 »

gzread wrote: post #451
01100011 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA buying gasoline from Bermuda, shipped via the Panama Canal, because it refuses to allow new refineries is the perfect demonstration of this.

That's also kind of a pigovian tax though, right? By making gasoline more expensive they discourage its use. I guess they're chicken to make it an actual tax Also why wouldn't it come from other US states? Seems easier

Pipelines, the Jones Act and CA blend requirements prevent CA from getting much gas from other states.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#685

Post by lokar »

Someone wrote: post #531
culi wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early IPCC reports, all the way up to AR5 basically threw their hands up when it came to permafrost emissions. They admitted we didn't have the necessary data yet and for the most part didn't account for it at all in their models Check out the 1.5C special report. Go to section 2.2.1.2, last paragraph says > The reduced complexity climate models employed in this assessment do not take into account permafrost or non-C…

The claim being discussed is not that they didn’t account for it, but that they didn’t attempt to account for it. Reading that text, I think they did, but chose not to include it (I guess because they didn’t need to to make their point and, by not including it, avoided opponents from arguing about the validity of the result based on uncertainties in those models)

Is it fair to say they account for it, but don’t try to quantify if?

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#686

Post by Forgeties79 »

funkyfiddler369 wrote: post #678
jihadjihad wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are practicing the reverse scientific method. They hold a conclusion in their hand, like, man-made climate change is a hoax , and seek to find any threads of "evidence" that support their foregone conclusion.

that's cute but you can't blame people for holding opinions based on phenomenal observations before they learn the language and can perform experiments. the fact that so many can't is the sole reason you might be considered somewhat superior or competent. more people with scientific skills and a personal way to explain and adhere to the scientific method would mean that your competence would be no more than average,…

>that’s cute

Unnecessary but moving past that: I understand where you’re coming from but a hallmark of people like that is they are not willing to learn or be swayed no matter how you try to educate them. They have decided what is real and it often dovetails with their social/political views in a way that is very hard to disentangle.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#687

Post by jpadkins »

lambdaone wrote: post #157
jpadkins wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Amazing hyperbole, and a deflection from the real issues. You can fight against wrongdoing without actually advocating people being killed. Right now, climate change is an undeniable fact, its causes well-known, and the evidence for it now part of everyday life. If anything, its effects have been underestimated to date, and 'non-believers' in it are either fools or acting based on morally repugnant principles.

> the evidence for it now part of everyday life

I know of no evidence of global warming affecting my everyday life, nor anyone I know. I am open-minded, please show me what I should be looking at to see evidence of global warming in my everyday life. I live in Western PA, USA if that helps.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#689

Post by jmcgough »

gzread wrote: post #444
jmcgough wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon, we'll have millions of climate change refugees, battles over resources, regular once-in-a-century storms, more wars. We're close to the point where we'll be too busy thrashing to address the root cause.

This isn't a powerful motivator to people who think they will win those wars.

No one wins in a protracted war.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#690

Post by tlogan »

patmorgan23 wrote: post #568
tlogan wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China creates about 30–35% of global emissions. India about 8% but it is climbing fast. What rich countries do is they just export their factories to other countries and say: look we do not pollute.

Just for reference China has about 17% of the world's population, and India has about 18%. China has also been deploying lots of renewable and nuclear energy, and their carbon emissions actually falling. Solar and wind have gotten so cheap we should be able to forgo more fossil fuel deployment in developing nations.

China CO2 emission increased a lot over the last 20 years and it is growing every years. Not decreasing but increasing. The IEA estimate says China’s CO₂ emissions reached 12.6 Gt in 2023, up 4.7% from 2022.

On the other hand U.S. CO₂ emissions decreased slightly between 2022 and 2023. About 2–3% (from 4.79 to 4.68 Gt)

[1] https://www.iea.org/countries/china/emissions

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