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Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

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Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#681

Post by alchemism »

avazhi wrote: post #180
thomassmith65 wrote: post #12

The Iranian diaspora around the world is celebrating. Here's the scene in Berlin: https://youtu.be/NSbx_0mtk80?si=MJ_Bfvx8gVd1P1mm They've waited a very long time for this moment!

Aside from a few members of the IRGC, everybody who has been paying attention for the past 40 years is celebrating. Taking out both Maduro and Khomeini over the course of a few months without a single American or Israeli casualty is peak.

Murdering heads of state and their families is cool as Judge, Jury, and Executioner if no soldiers are hurt in the process, is that where we are now?

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#682

Post by throw0101c »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #665
throw0101c wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Millions of muslims around the world viewed the Iranian theocracy as the only power in the world fighting for Islam. They are devastated. > They are devastated but they are were totally quiet on the unarmed thirty thousands+ protesters the islamist iranian regime killed in a matter of days a few weeks ago. One person's protestor is another's insurrectionist. See also the folks on January 6: (now-pardoned) patriots…

The US didn’t mass kill Jan 6ers.

> The US didn’t mass kill Jan 6ers.

Were the Jan6ers good guys or bad guys? Did they deserve to get punished? (Trump didn't/doesn't think so, which is why he pardoned them; Pence may have a different opinion.)

The fact that different countries have different punishments for the same crime is a cultural artefact. The fact that you find it unacceptable is personal opinion. In Singapore drug use (not even distribution) is punishable by up to 10 years in prison:

* https://www.cnb.gov.sg/singapore-drug-situation/misuse-of-dr...

Too much? Too little?

One can say that a person did bad things, but the punishment was inappropriate in a particular case, but some kind of punishment was needed.

Were the Iranian protestors/insurrectionists guilty of crimes? Did they deserve some kind of punishment?

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#684

Post by urikaduri »

somenameforme wrote: post #566
Cipater wrote: post #454

I work with and know a lot of Shia (non-Iranian) Muslims and listening to them talk about this assassination I'm convinced that the likelihood of attempted terror attacks against the US has increased significantly. The non-Iranian part is key. Millions of muslims around the world viewed the Iranian theocracy as the only power in the world fighting for Islam. They are devastated.

The most interesting thing to me is that he was apparently assassinated while working at his office. It's not like the US/Israeli actions were a secret, yet he seemingly made no effort to secure himself. It's hard not to see this as an intentional martyrdom. So it will be interesting to see whether his calculations were correct, or whether the US' were. The one thing I think must be true is that I can't imagine an 86…

He was assasinated during a meeting with many other high ranking members of the regime. I doubt they decided on collective suicide.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#685

Post by pydry »

hartator wrote: post #609
pydry wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If people keep their mouth shut when a regime murders 30 000+ unarmed people That 30k number came from the same source the WMDs did - paid informants who knew exactly what they were being paid to deliver. Same sales pitch, different war. The standards of evidence some people will accept when America is hell bent on starting a war is so low it blows my mind. Ive noticed that these people who try to guilt trip meek li…

> That 30k number came from the same source the WMDs did - paid informants who knew exactly what they were being paid to deliver. The Iran official number was still 3,117. It’s not that crazy to think the number is closer to 30k than to this.

Many of whom were cops.

Trump and Israel are not backing nonviolent protestors in Iran. Theyre hell bent on provoking a civil war and are quite open about it.

Plenty of video of evidence of protestor violence if you care to look.

Meanwhile team genocide are trying to run a guilt trip on the rest of us

Because we care less about a crackdown on protestors by another government than we do a fully fledged genocide aided and abetted by our own.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#686

Post by UncleMeat »

ant6n wrote: post #424
lamontcg wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been a regime which has collapsed due to an external strike like this where it hasn't resulted in some decades long civil war nightmare? I can't think of any time when bombing the shit out of a country and killing their leader has actually worked. All I can think of is examples of blowback.

The canonical example is WWii Germany. Denazification actually sort of worked. But it required a lot of effort, resources and special circumstances.

Germany was also split in two for fifty years.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#687

Post by breppp »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #618
breppp wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two great examples of countries where US pressure had effectively transformed from dictatorships to democracies

Wow, I did not expect this type of reply. I reject it. In South Korea, there was incredible civil violence between protesters and police. I'm talking about stolen automatic weapons by protesters, then used against the police after decades of unchecked violence by the police against protesters. In hindsight, it looks like a low grade civil war. It was brutally hard and violent for South Korean to gain their democracy.…

I can only see the US insistence on many bad foreign decisions in the name of democracy done in the Middle East by multiple administrations, that without much knowledge of the situation in East Asia, I venture to guess it is not a coincidence that US allies turned into democracies

I also am not sure about Indonesia as an example of a US ally, I don't think it is similar to the other two

Effectively both SK and Taiwan were completely dependent on US for defense, I doubt this had no bearing

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#688

Post by somenameforme »

sethev wrote: post #664
throwaway173738 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People lose cognition as they age.

And gain experience

In every field where competence can be objectively measured, experience does not endlessly correlate with competence. There's always a growth phase but then there's a bell curve of age vs competence, that reaches a peak and then there's a constant decline from there. So for instance chess is primarily a mental game, yet the decline comes as early as one's mid thirties for world class players.

I'm fully willing to accept that for a field where scenarios are fuzzier and intuition more important, it may well be that peak on the bell curve comes somewhat later. But I think it's essentially inconceivable that one is near, or even remotely near, their peak, in their 80s, in anything.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#689

Post by hnuser847 »

agb123 wrote: post #636
Alex_L_Wood wrote: post #559

It’s so funny reading most comments here, knowing that they’d be celebrating and saying this is good if it was Netanyahu. But when it’s a maniacal islamist declaring his goal to be the destruction of US and Israel, it’s suddenly very nuanced.

No one liked the ayatollah, but if you think the president can go to war without congressional approval then you are unamerican. On top of that, the younger generation of the IRGC is more extreme than the current one, and there has never been a successful regime change by only using an air campaign. Dummies might point to Kosovo or Libya, but the opposition in those cases were armed. In Iran, the opposition is about…

> if you think the president can go to war without congressional approval then you are unamerican

The last time congress declared war was 1942. That ship long ago my friend.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#690

Post by throw0101c »

Recurecur wrote: post #543
throw0101c wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Millions of muslims around the world viewed the Iranian theocracy as the only power in the world fighting for Islam. They are devastated. > They are devastated but they are were totally quiet on the unarmed thirty thousands+ protesters the islamist iranian regime killed in a matter of days a few weeks ago. One person's protestor is another's insurrectionist. See also the folks on January 6: (now-pardoned) patriots…

You should read up on “false equivalence”…

> You should read up on “false equivalence”…

You should read up on "Terrorists or Freedom Fighters":

* https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/terroris...

* https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/no-volume/on-terrorists-a...

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