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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#681

Post by Zak »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #658
JoshTriplett wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit unions, at least in theory, are known for caring more about their customers. It'd be worth explicitly giving them the feedback that you use them via their website or via an app that works on an Open Source phone, and telling them that that's one reason you're a customer.

Fraud prevention. If they lock things down, they lose less money to fraud. I think they should just have to suck it up and eat the cost but obviously they don't think that way. Only a small minority even understands and cares about these issues. The money they save by trampling over our freedom is no doubt much higher than the value brought in by us. They will no doubt sacrifice us for increased profits if we force t…

> If they lock things down, they lose less money to fraud.

[Citation Needed]

I see this kind of claim made often, but never backed up with evidence that remote attestation of consumer devices has any real-world impact on fraud. It sounds like it could be true because it would detect compromised devices, but it could just as easily be false because people with devices that don't pass are usually technically sophisticated.

Re: Keep Android Open

#682

Post by ece »

If signing apps is required, then self-signing with your own key should be an option, in addition to a virus scan. Signing authorities have gotten things wrong, which is forgivable as long as they are learning from mistakes, but not letting people run and auto update the apps they want on the device they bought because of device restrictions, scare screens, or other roadblocks is the main complaint here.

Re: Keep Android Open

#684

Post by fsflover »

beeflet wrote: post #346
fsflover wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ Sent from my Librem 5.

I don't care about specs, I care about functionality and price. The camera on the pinephone doesn't practically work because it is too slow and the quality sucks. You basicially cannot record videos whatsoever. I can't use the device for GPS navigation. I can run whatsapp within waydroid, but it isn't practical due to the battery life and startup limitations that imposes. The GPU on the pinephone sucks, is underpower…

> But $800 is a lot to ask to test out switching to linux with no guarantee

Commercial phones' costs also include the data value they continuously steal.

> It looks like the librem 5 can't record videos

It can: https://social.librem.one/@dos/115893142828953827

> or do GPS navigation yet

Yes, it can: https://forums.puri.sm/t/is-gps-supposed-to-work/21147/76

> or I will have enough battery life

Fortunately, you can replace the battery on the go. But yes, if you make no compromises, you will never win a tiny bit of freedom.

Re: Keep Android Open

#685

Post by iggldiggl »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #650
iggldiggl wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What most of these people do not seem to get is that proper sandboxing does not only protect against attacks from the inside (rogue developer, supply chain attack), but also from the outside. The problem is that strict file system sandboxing in particular also breaks a substantial number of workflows that can't be modelled as 'only ever open the exact file the user explicitly' picked. (Any multi-file file formats a…

I think had the problem is that the toolbox we can deploy to solve these problems is so empty. For example, it’s useful for a music player with metadata editing features to have read/write access to the whole filesystem, but that constitutes a significant risk since all we can do is wholesale allow or prevent access to the whole filesystem. What if the system could allow it to access only music files, though? That’d…

I think Apple's implementation in macOS is the only one that offers some slightly more advanced features, but even those don't get you that far

(Some sort of way to store permission references with relatives paths in a file, but which most probably wouldn't work with files being exchanged cross-platform, and other than that mainly being able to get automatic access to 'related' files, i.e. same file name, but a differing extension – that solves some sidecar files, like video subtitles, or certain kinds of georeferenced images, but large capability gaps still remain – even the video subtitle example stops working if the file name is no longer 100 % the same, like if you have multiple subtitle files for differing languages, where VLC for example supports prefix-matching the video file name with the subtitle files.)

And while your idea does have its merits, I fear that pretty soon you still hit a point where you can't sensibly and succinctly display those more complex types of permissions in the UI.

Re: Keep Android Open

#686

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #607
JoshTriplett wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website No, unfortunately some things can't be. There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance.

"There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance." Turns out Ticketmaster still has ticket printing machines at such venues Was at a game at one of them, claimed I had a problem with the app and after some negotiation at the ticket window a millennial printed me a ticket Why do they still have the printers The "I'm having a problem with the app" strategy can work in other conte…

When people have problems using apps, alternatives are often available

Perhaps this is why, e.g., venues that "require" apps still have ticket printing machines and still print tickets when there are problems with using the apps

The situation is not so "cut and dried" that no one ever attends an event at these venues using printed tickets instead of displaying the ticket on the phones they bring to the event

There are alternatives to apps that are sometimes used, e.g., when customers have problems, even when businesses try to "require" apps

As such, businesses do not always succeed in collecting the same amount of data from every customer

This is not to say customers who try to avoid unnecessary data collection always succeed, either

Generally, trying is a prequisite to succeeding

If most customers do not try it does not mean no customer succeeds. There are some who do, at least some of the time

Re: Keep Android Open

#687

Post by pessimizer »

phoronixrly wrote: post #22
notorandit wrote: post #9

We ("you") have no power to keep android open. Unfortunately it is in the hands of a company that is building it for profit, in a way or the other. It's been our choice to drink this glass of wishful thinking while giving that company a solid dominant position in the market. We ("you") can only make choices that will overturn that trend. Fully opensource hardware with fully opensource software? Maybe, but also this i…

We (people who live in a country/confederacy with working antitrust laws) have power to keep large companies from anticompetitive practices such as this one.

What country does this "we" that you speak of live in? In the US there hasn't been any antitrust enforcement for 30 years (really more like 50 years, but I'm being generous), Obama appointed a crop of judges that don't even believe in antitrust as a concept, and Congress doesn't do anything that hasn't been paid for by a donor any more.

I haven't heard about any other countries doing any better, either. Their systems were even cheaper to subvert.

Re: Keep Android Open

#688

Post by colordrops »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #666
colordrops wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much self victimization to avoid using open alternatives.

> See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much confidence for an incorrect answer. As cited elsewhere in the thread, some venues are "no app, no entry", and do not have paper tickets .

Once again, never heard of this. It must be a rare exception because ticketmaster allows you to print them. Back to my 98% argument.

Can you cite a venue that won't take printed tickets?

Edit: it looks like NFL doesn't take them, BUT you can go to the box office with an order number and still get in, so same thing.

Re: Keep Android Open

#689

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

dhayabaran wrote: post #639

[flagged]

"Android sideloading should be the same: download an APK, verify the signature, install."

Download source code from mirror, verify signature, compile, install

If the target OS is under the control of a giant surveillance and online advertising services company, then what is the probability of the company allowing mobile hardware buyers to control their hardware using software of their own choosing. Is it non-zero

The entire debate around "Android" already concedes that mobile hardware requires an OS controlled by a giant surveillance and online advertising services company

Re: Keep Android Open

#690

Post by throwaway94275 »

hmry wrote: post #589
madeofpalk wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google lost because they have all the emails colluding to prevent competition. If Google had not done that, they wouldn't have lost.

The lesson? Only discuss illegal activity in auto-delete Slack channels

Or via phone calls.
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