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Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

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Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#681

Post by tabbott »

caconym_ wrote: post #546
tabbott wrote: post #430

I'm biased, as I lead the Zulip project. But I think this is a reasonable place for me to post some thoughts. Given current events in the USA, I can't emphasize enough how worried one should be about the fact that a few companies like Discord, Google (Gmail), and Meta have databases with access to the private conversations of hundreds of millions of people with their closest friends and family members, linked up with…

I'm asking because I hate Matrix and actually want you to convince me: why should I accept the risk of migrating my friend group from Discord to Zulip, which has already "broken the seal" of restricting features behind a monthly fee even for self-hosted users, when I could migrate us to Matrix instead? Matrix seems like the much less risky option. I see that you have a "community" tier that's free and doesn't restric…

I don't think we've ever charged a friend group or other non-incorporated group of people a dime for self-hosted notifications.

For the community tier, you don't have to do anything up to 10 users.

If your server has more than 10 users, you fill out a brief form (https://github.com/zulip/zulip/blob/main/templates/corporate...). We work hard to consistently process these requests within a couple business days, and the vast majority of communities are approved for full sponsorship without further interaction.

(Large communities managed by a business are quoted nonzero but extremely discounted pricing for self-hosted notifications).

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#682

Post by leroy-is-here »

canada_dry wrote: post #107
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #102

You’re out of your mind if you think I’m gonna upload ID to use a “shitposting about video games with friends” service.

To protect my privacy, I have a photoshopped drivers license with a photo of my dog that I've successfully used for verification (e.g. AirBnB) in the past. Though, with AI being used I suspect it wouldn't pass any longer.

I tried to do this when LinkedIn forced me to upload an ID. It didn't work unfortunately. I see the good in this but I know it will be abused. I want to run away but I don't foresee any way that the powers-that-be will let the common person use the Internet without an approved ID in the future.

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#683

Post by GaryBluto »

elevation wrote: post #256
cheschire wrote: post #228

I deleted my Facebook account in 2011. After finding out how much critical neighborhood information I have been missing, I finally registered a new Facebook account fifteen years later to follow my neighborhood groups. A month later, the account was suspended for supposedly breaking guidelines. I never posted a single message, never reacted to any posts. They then required me to upload a video scan of my face to prov…

I helped an elderly woman create her first FB account. She'd just lost her husband and wanted to notify his friends about his upcoming memorial service. She knew their names but didn't have contact information. We created the account from an Apple device, registering from her home cable modem IP, giving FB her cellphone number and ISP issued email address — all strong signals of consumer authenticity. But after she a…

Exactly my experience. Hoovered up my data and refused to let me in after.

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#684

Post by [deleted] »

cedws wrote: post #615

I understand the frustration towards Discord, especially because this is a global rollout of a policy they're only required to enforce in specific countries, but it's IMO misdirected. They're likely trying to get ahead of the legislation. The way the winds are blowing indicates the Western governments that haven't already passed legislation mandating ID verification soon will. You can move to $ALT_PLATFORM but unless…

[deleted]

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#685

Post by paradox460 »

jsemrau wrote: post #620
tabbott wrote: post #430

I'm biased, as I lead the Zulip project. But I think this is a reasonable place for me to post some thoughts. Given current events in the USA, I can't emphasize enough how worried one should be about the fact that a few companies like Discord, Google (Gmail), and Meta have databases with access to the private conversations of hundreds of millions of people with their closest friends and family members, linked up with…

[flagged]

Yes, but it's fashionable to blame the US for things

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#686

Post by bee_rider »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #605
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #102

You’re out of your mind if you think I’m gonna upload ID to use a “shitposting about video games with friends” service.

I’m giving it exactly 2 weeks after implementation for most people to just suck it up and upload their IDs. I can’t think of a single “this new thing will break the service, people will mass quit!” thing every working out. Sure, some users left. But super majority, who has already built communities and are depended on it just keep churning. Privacy and all that jazz aren’t that important to an average person. Everyon…

Eh, I dunno, there’s a free chat app lifecycle that they all pretty predictably go through and Discord is getting a bit long in the tooth.

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#687

Post by cromka »

I am not one for conspiracy theories but I notice a pattern... Did you know Chrome now offers to save your passport and other ID data in their keychain? Why, after so many years, do they now offer to save this information that, if leaked or backdoored, will easily bind login information with their owners?

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#688

Post by tabbott »

caconym_ wrote: post #546
tabbott wrote: post #430

I'm biased, as I lead the Zulip project. But I think this is a reasonable place for me to post some thoughts. Given current events in the USA, I can't emphasize enough how worried one should be about the fact that a few companies like Discord, Google (Gmail), and Meta have databases with access to the private conversations of hundreds of millions of people with their closest friends and family members, linked up with…

I'm asking because I hate Matrix and actually want you to convince me: why should I accept the risk of migrating my friend group from Discord to Zulip, which has already "broken the seal" of restricting features behind a monthly fee even for self-hosted users, when I could migrate us to Matrix instead? Matrix seems like the much less risky option. I see that you have a "community" tier that's free and doesn't restric…

Regarding risk: I certainly won't blame you for feeling risk-averse given the history of the tech industry. I can tell you about some unusual choices we've intentionally made to minimize risk for our users:

- We eschewed VC funding. A big part of my motivation was that I felt that VC funding usually requires eventual enshittification. https://zulip.com/values/ talks more about this.

- Zulip has been 100% FOSS software for more than a decade.

- At the very beginning, we built a complete data import/export system that allows migrating between our Cloud hosting and self-hosting; we put a lot of care into maintaining it well.

I can't promise that we'll never have something to sell for self-hosting communities. For example, I could imagine offering a paid add-on for encrypted backups.

That said, I'd like to push back on the idea that charging businesses for a tool that's an important part of their daily work "breaks the seal". Organizations with a software budget should be happier to pay a fair price for ethical, user-first software from a friendly vendor than for a closed-source product from a megacorp. And Zulip's full-time development team should be able to make a living building ethical FOSS software.

Re: Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month

#689

Post by jesterson »

pibaker wrote: post #209

It is a great irony that the heavy handed push for "protect da kids" is all happening while we learn, day by day, that the richest and most powerful members of our society have no problem hanging out with a convicted child sex trafficker. Rules for thee, free love for me.

If you look at almost all "protect the kids" initiatives, they are targeting mostly to deter free speech or cover other shenanigans. Same people who "want to protect kids" have no problem exploiting kids.

General public should be more intelligent and look a bit deeper than a cool title, but I really can't realistically expect that.

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